RE: http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,183052,00.html

"...one official acknowledged, is that active duty retirees rely for decades on military health care."


I still recall my first encounter with a military dentist. What a second rate dropout dentist he was. My follow up a week later with a different dentist in a white coat (thank God) said, "Oh No, I see you had Major Green. Oh wow, you must have been in a lot of pain. I'm sorry, you had to endure such a fate." Let's just say Maj Green was a BUTCHER! And that's and insult to butchers.

This is news? Anyone can see how beat up an AC soldier/officer is when they retire. It's the stress! (this was a major reason why I left the AC.)

This should be the primary reason why a RC soldier shouldn't have to wait till he/she is 60 to collect his/her retirement!

quote:

Originally posted by 5615188:
This should be the primary reason why a RC soldier shouldn't have to wait till he/she is 60 to collect his/her retirement!

Give me a frigging break! Try busting your ass for 365 days a year in the cold...rain...snow...that along with all the other BS that comes with the package for 20 plus years. It wasn't my fault that Bush rained on the good old boys one weekend a month club....and let you play real soldier for awhile.

STRESS!!! I finally couldn't hack it anymore after 21 years when I couldn't sleep at night from the stress. It wasn't combat related or anything, it was the constant opstempo with everyone wanting everything done yesterday. My blood pressure was sky high.

Since retirement, my blood pressure is down and I can sleep a full night. Best thing for me...

Could it be that a regular had far greater exposure to unbelievable levels of “BS” to consume in their career than the reservists counterpart? Think about. Perhaps the question that needs asking of each should be… “Given what you know today at your retirement, would you do it again without change, if given the chance?” I think the answers you would receive would be very interesting. Take a sampling from the groupings from the 60’s, 70’s, 80’s, 90’s, and those retiring now.

I think someone in the pentagon has way too much time on their hands and needs to be put to better use. What a waste of tax dollars, studying who lives longer. What about those of us who have been both active duty and reserve?

One reason reserve retirees live longer is motiviation. They have to wait until they're 60 to even begin to draw retired pay.

If you're a career officer and you retire from Active Duty at age 42 with *your 20*, you'll receive $50k the rest of your life - like winning the lottery!

(Or living off the interest from $1 million dollars)

For a Reservist (same rank), they'd have to wait until age 60, and live off 1/3 that amount (or less). So, there's more incentive to stay alive.

It is hard to beat an Active Duty retirement....

quote:

Originally posted by shoederrick:

quote:

Originally posted by 5615188:
This should be the primary reason why a RC soldier shouldn't have to wait till he/she is 60 to collect his/her retirement!

Give me a frigging break! Try busting your ass for 365 days a year in the cold...rain...snow...that along with all the other BS that comes with the package for 20 plus years. It wasn't my fault that Bush rained on the good old boys one weekend a month club....and let you play real soldier for awhile.

shoederrick,

You may want to reflect on the fact that the latest commision on military pay and benefits, and Dr. Chu (DepSecDef for Personnel Affairs) recommended that the Acive Duty Retirement Pay Age should be moved up to 60, to match the Reserve Component.

Also, when the RC Retirement Age was set to 60 after WWII, it was set to match that of the Federal Civil Service. When the reduced the Federal Civil Service to age 55, they left the RC Retirement age at 60.

As for those AC type that think it would be unfair to give the RC Retired Pay when they retired, when this came up in the late 80s/early 90s (before they really started mobilizing the RC a lot), the average RC Retirement Pay rate ran between 8 and 12 percent of base pay, which included those with lots of Active Duty Time and up to 40 years of total service (Enlisted members of the RC could go to 40 years). For someone that served a minimum ammount of time on Active Duty, their pay would run 6.9 percent of base pay after 20 years.

Additionally, I know several Doctors ond other Professionals that LOST their practice due to being mobilized.
Think of that, you spend years building up a good buisiness, be gone for a year or two and have to start all over again.

Actually whenI look at your post, I see you violate your own Avatar.

Personally I have over 17 years Active Duty Time when I combine my Enlisted time with Active Duty Commissioned and Mobilized time.
As for my total time in Federal Service (Active, Reserve, Mobilized) I have:
33 years, 10 Months 15 days.

Interestingly enough we spent some time in 3ID togather and I was the Force Mod Officer fielding the M1A1 (FUE) to the 3rd ACR after you left there).

3/64th Armor was Schweinfurt if I remember right, back then I was down in Giebelstadt, we may even have met as I worked with both 1st and 2nd Bde.

Rock of the Marne!

I much prefer this format, i can go back and correct typos

This message has been edited. Last edited by: oseles,

Back in the early 80s I read a study on the life expectancy of Military Reitrees.

Those that retired at 20 had a longer life expectancy than those who retired at 30 or more years.

Part of the problem they identified is that those that went 30+ tended to get very much into the Type A personality. When they retired, a lot of them went from being very active and very wound up (like the spring) and go to a relaxed, sedentary life style. For those that did that their life expectance after retirement was about 5 years.

Who cares man!! When it's time to go, it's time to go.

There are many factors contributing to the reasons why people die soon after retirement.
(Ref: http://www.urban.org/socsecurity/retire_factors.pdf) Education, access to health care and certainly genetics are a few, but what is interesting is one would think that the with the high level of physical fitness, this would help decrease those numbers.

Although this may make many active soldiers angry, but despite the high level of stress on active duty, there is a significant level of stress in the civilian world. Coming out from a secluded, supportive environment and being told after 20+ years that you're basically "on your own" would be a significant stressor for anyone. The reservists unfortunately have the social support of the military to come back to, however they do have their regular life to adjust to. They adjust and when they retire there really isn't a life adjustment. Starting over from position (most likely) of being respected for rank or schools completed and being thrust into a world that is ignorant of what the military is all about is tough for anyone.

I am a National Guardsman(Iraqi Vet) and I think both the Reserves and Active Duty undergo significant amounts of stress (none more than the other)-so either side needs to take it easy on who has it harder. Concentrate on ways to cut the risk (after all we are all soldiers.)

I served in the submarine service on a fast attack. There was stress from the op-tempo, as well as from the environment. Since leaving active duty, they have learned more about heat stress as well. The stress in that environment dwarfed any stress we see in the civilian world.

I remember my senior enlisted leadership. Men around 38 to 42 who looked more like they were in their 50's or 60's. The only stress management tools we had were tobacco, alcohol, and chasing women!

I retired from the reserve. The stress level was much lower, though we found ways to stay busy. As an LPO, it felt like a full time job. But in the reserve, there was more focus on staying healthy. I worked a full time job as an engineer, attended university night classes, and was in the reserve. Was awarded a NCM and 2 NAM's during my service, so I wasn't slacking in the reserve. At no time in all of that, did my stress level approach what I saw on active duty.

Medical care isn't the issue. The issue is enduring a tough, dangerous job with low pay. So, not only do we see stress from the job environment. We also see economic stress, family stress, and simply a tough lifestyle.

This servy opened my eyes I once asked a Major in the Canadian Air Force why enlisted men died before Officers. He said "We are use to the good life."

quote:

Originally posted by Gloam:
I served in the submarine service on a fast attack. There was stress from the op-tempo, as well as from the environment. Since leaving active duty, they have learned more about heat stress as well. The stress in that environment dwarfed any stress we see in the civilian world.

I remember my senior enlisted leadership. Men around 38 to 42 who looked more like they were in their 50's or 60's. The only stress management tools we had were tobacco, alcohol, and chasing women!

I retired from the reserve. The stress level was much lower, though we found ways to stay busy. As an LPO, it felt like a full time job. But in the reserve, there was more focus on staying healthy. I worked a full time job as an engineer, attended university night classes, and was in the reserve. Was awarded a NCM and 2 NAM's during my service, so I wasn't slacking in the reserve. At no time in all of that, did my stress level approach what I saw on active duty.

Medical care isn't the issue. The issue is enduring a tough, dangerous job with low pay. So, not only do we see stress from the job environment. We also see economic stress, family stress, and simply a tough lifestyle.

I totally agree with your analysis. I also came from submarines and have observed the same aging process while on active duty for six years.
Two BS degrees and graduate school, paid in part by VA and reserve pay, have allowed me to appreciate the contributions of our active duty types more than I did when I was active.

For Gunny's concern for wasting Funds on "studies" by actuaries. Studies result in cost projections on providing care, (in this case) depending on years for which care will be needed (before death). Sounds "useless" but guessing is useless for advocates (Service and veterans' Associations who defend, lobby for more or less of something (hardly ever, the latter).

My 33 years was divided thusly: 14 in Air Guard, including 3 yrs of that as fulltime caretaker/civilian employee and 19 & half on Federal Duty (1 yr VN,3 other foreign stations, and 4 CONUS states PCS'S. nOW 20 RETIRED with much of it in factory production settings as well as some substitute teaching, Public Relations in State Cabinet (3 yrs). Stress can be found in all callings. Physical activity, not including dodging gunfire should usually be a positive, not a stessful thing. My guess is that dis-continuity of care provider, by Active Duty Medical facilities and VA may provide a clue. But the VA's digitized records solves many of the risks associated with change in provider. Highly worth watching Obama's investment in digitizing all medical records.

From the article:

"both groups live longer from age 60 than Americans in general"

While all the theories may be interesting keep in mind the above.