RE: http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,160247,00.html

Complete BULLSH*T! With the amount of pork in these spending bills and they can't "afford" to take care of the Guard/Reserve members they have ABUSED over the last 6-7 years????
I think I'll go puke now and then I'll send my representatives a nice colorful message about their duties to the military.....

And the bennies just get better and better....Won't be long before we have to pay The Government to serve. Wait we already do that with concurrent receipt.

It has to be either ALL reservists, or NONE. They can't single out a few reservists who will serve AFTER this thing is over and say, "oh, we're going to let YOU retire early, but the other 600,000 that served, well, screw you guys. You don't count?????"

Surly, someone up there has to see how rediculous that is. It makes NO sense to ONLY include the reservists who get mobilized AFTER he signs. Takes the whole reason for the bill out of the equation. BTW, I'm in Iraq RIGHT NOW as we speak mobilized in support of OIF. Been here for 6 months and get demobilized in April. I want to retire 6 months early too!

If you had read the article you would see there was only enough funds to approve expanded CRSC to those who were WOUNDED AND FORCED OUT BEFORE 20 years or make the reservist early retirement program retroactive to October 1, 2001.

If you think you deserve to retire 6 months early more than those who are severely combat disabled deserve whats due to them (their military retirement checks) than you all are crazy.

If you don't like it, go active duty, or go get blown up in Iraq and get forced out disabled unable to find suitable employment with no retirement to fall back on.

"When in the Course of human Events, it becomes necessary for one People to dissolve the Political Bands...and to institute new Government...when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations...evinces a Design to reduce them...it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government and to provide new Guards for their future security...such is now the Necessity...the history of the present...is a History of repeated Injuries and Usurpations, all having in direct Object the Establishment of an absolute Tyranny..."--U.S.Declaration of Independence. FURTHER: see U.S. Constitution,Article I, Section 8-Powers of Congress; Article IV,Section 4.-Republican form of government guaranteed.Each State to be protected.
Congress has negelected it Responsibilities,the Executive has Abused its Powers, the Supreme Court has Usurped the Constitution which officers and military members of the Government
have sworn an oath to protect and defend; Ladies and Gentlemen, DO YOUR DUTY.

If the young, inexperienced, relatively uneducated soldiers that the military likes to hire were to be made aware of all the crap Congress does to screw with them in later years, they would never enlist in the beginning or reup.
Someday they are going to give a war and nobody is going to show up.
The reality is that fathers talk, brothers talk and friends talk. It you screw with them they will council each other to not join. The belief by Congress that "Patriotism" will get them a voluntire military is loosing it's lustre. Today's young people will need to be paid well and taken well care of if we hope to keep them in the military for 20 years. After all, a career in the military is just another job. Granted, it can be high risk so the remuniration and benefits will have to be up to the task. The number one reason people check out of the military is short pay. Congress has been giving the short stick to the military since the Civil War. Were it not for conscription, most of the time they would fail to raise an army.

Jesus, I just read what I said. Surprising how your views change after you have a few years on you and especially after you have seen the movie.

Quit your whining. I served in Reserves for over 20 years and never saw anyone who was hurt monetarily except for some doctors and dentists by mobilization. In fact, when I was a Regular Army officer, we used to have to beat off the Reservists and NGs with a stick who wanted to come onto active duty for a tour because they liked the money. I believe if they do pass something for early retirement, it should only be for combat duty time not just mobilization. The Reserve propaganda hacks would have one believe that all these mobilizations are for Iraq or Afghanistan, NOT TRUE, most are to back fill active duty units in stateside and German assignments. My hat is off to the current NG units who are finally doing their combat thing rather than being in good old boy clubs where they took the middle weekend of annual training off. It is too bad the new, good NG filled with young Soldiers and officers with combat experience is suffering for the REMF, draft dodging, combat avoiding NG clowns of my generation. Finally, there might be an unanticipated glitch to the early retirement - your retirement pay is calculated at whatever the pay of the active duty rank is on the day you retire. After that the retired pay gets raised annually based on COLA determinations. Guess what whiners, COLA hasn't come close to matching the pay raises given to the Active duty personnel. If the whiners want to be really fair, then lets give combat arms personnel 2 months credit for every month in COMBAT and finance corps personnel .5 months credit for every month in the office. You see whiners, it will never end. I agree with a previous writer, if you didn't like what you signed up for or for some reason couldn't read, join the active duty guys. If you don't whine too much, they might be happy to have you join them. PS. On the 147,000 multiple mobilization folks, lets see the figures on how many volunteered versus were manditorily mobilized. Also would like to see where all the mobilized troops went - Iraq, Afghanistan, Germany, States, Cancun, etc. Would then give everyone a context about the burden of mobilization on the Reserves, and if they are being put in harms way more than the active duy folks. Would be interesting reading.

Ram you hit the nail on the head. Most of the reserve and Guard think that they are weekend warriors. Nothing more. Now that they are actually asked to do what they are trained to do, the crying has begun. Sorry guys, you signed on the dotted line, called a contract. And unlike pro athletes, you cannot re-negociate your contract. I do not personnaly feel that the reserve retirement is fair, you should retire and get your money then, but, it was all open, you got it when your turned 60, period. So buck up, and live with it.

The feeling of Congress is summed up in the one Staffer's statement:

quote:

“This change, he said, was "far more important than reserve retirement.";

They are arguing about the difference between 213 Million and 2.1 billion over 10 years. The bottom line is they should institute BOTH NOW.

As for Congress saying they can’t find the money for Active and Reserve pays, lets raise your (Congress and Staff) retirement age to 60 as well. Oh, and let us cut out the Bridges to no-where and other pork barrel spending.

John P. said it very well:

quote:

"It's a way for Congress to appear to being do something and actually giving nothing. What a crock!" wrote John P., an Army reservist in Iraq.

If you bother to go back and look at Reserve Component Retirement, it was instituted at a time when most members of the Guard and Reserve would retire with between 8 and 12 percent retirement checks, which amounted to the equivalent of 3.2 to 4.8 years of active duty. It was also pegged at 60 years to match that of the Federal Civil Service retirement. Then they lowered the Federal Civil Service to 55. They left the Reserve Component retirement age at 60 because they felt it was not important to retention to lower it.

Then right after 9-11, Congress started talking about lowering the RC Retirement Age and DoD, under the leadership of Dr. Chu, argued against it basically saying ‘ That to lower the retirement age would cause RC Members to retire, and they would not be available for mobilization’ and OBTW it would cost too much. Well, given that the only RC members that can serve to age 60 are Enlisted, you can see who they were worried about mobilizing.

Also, you had Active Duty members saying it would be unfair to allow RC members to retire after 20 years, not realizing the difference between a 50% retirement they get and the fact most RC members would get between 8 and 12% retirement checks, and many RC members would have received even less.

Well wake up Active Duty people, the same Dr. Chu that is saying that RC members retirement age should not be lowered has proposed that Active Component members retirement age should be raised to 60.

On a personal note, on 1 October 2001 I received a call from my agency telling me I was being mobilized, and to report on 2 October. In all, I then stayed on Active Duty for 2 ½ years. To be told that that service is worth less than someone being mobilized after this bill is signed is an insult. But, what else is new.
All in all, I have 17 ½ years active duty and 33 years service when my RC time is included.

If they want to make the RC Retirement Age fair, allow the RC members to retire after 20 years and immediately start paying them. You would never get that paid retroactively, but it would start a lot of retirement checks flowing.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: oseles,

Well, well, well. Now we have a congress and senate who are insolvent on ever having served much less being on a few committees when it comes to addressing military matters of concern.

Comrades, the ball is in your courts today. It is time to play in the political arena after your service of war is complete. Each one of you now needs to take up the arms of public service.

Now is the time to become the congressperson, respresentative, senator, governor, mayor, sheriff, police chief, county commissioner etc., you deserve to be.

You have fought diligently side-by-side in order to deter an adversary hell bent on destroying our way of life. It does not mean they are not in your own backyard either. No, it means they are and the sooner you recognize this and the few who do persevere, will see the results of their making a difference.

Speak up! Your voice needs to be heard, are you tired of leaving it to others? Then become what your 60's anti-establishmentarianists did. They became senators, and congressman and cultural ideologues, dictating I have mine, but you can't have yours. You are fighting a self-centered generation (boomers).

Now is the time, (and its a long process), but don't forget your roots, and why you served. You served to give yourself the same chance to make change to the way government business is run.

You fought! Now claim what is rightfully yours.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ChainyaMongrels,

Just pay us the money. Many of us will not live to see 60.

Funding issues huh? There seems to be no funding problem with the illegal aliens.
Basically a high school kid can join the reserves and spend 40 plus years in the reserves. Wow! then they can get thier reserve retirement and social security retirement all with in a 2 year period. What a deal! The army should use that has recuriting tool.
Here is the retirement plan for congress.

Members of Congress are not eligible for a pension until they reach the age of 50, but only if they've completed 20 years of service. Members are eligible at any age after completing 25 years of service or after they reach the age of 62. Please also note that Member's of Congress have to serve at least 5 years to even receive a pension

It's alot better deal they have than they passed for the reserves.

quote:

Also, you had Active Duty members saying it would be unfair to allow RC members to retire after 20 years, not realizing the difference between a 50% retirement they get and the fact most RC members would get between 8 and 12% retirement checks, and many RC members would have received even less.

Numbers... yes, everything is numbers. "Time in service and retirement points". Active duty members gets 365 points a year. Reservist gets aprox.75 + active duty days, so I think it's fair the retirement issue.
Besides basically Armed Forces standards are the same for the Active duty members and reservist, that's when the Gov started to cut down on active duty members and increasing the reservist I think reservist are saving monies to the gov. Only one drill a weekend and have the same standards, we are all available to sacrifice our life if necesary equally. Again, we should get retirement based on the statistics and adding to that we should get retirement after serving the minumun time for retirement and not to wait until 60 years old. ARMY of ONE means one standard and not double standard.

Absolutely phenomenal. Congress INCREASES a benefit and all you see are folks whining that it wasn't enough. It's already MORE than you were signing up for. Makes the Reserves/NG look like another constituency that desparately wants to be pandered to. Makes me wish I had stayed in the Corps...

This is total bull ****. I served in Iraq Oct 04 to Oct 05 and now that time doesn't count, but those going over after the bill is signed will benefit. Cut all the pork that our elected oficials hand out to there buddies and there will be enough to totally fund this bill to include all who served since 9/11. The only change acceptable is to make it for time serving in combat theaters.

quote:

Originally posted by 13807482:
This is total bull ****. I served in Iraq Oct 04 to Oct 05 and now that time doesn't count, but those going over after the bill is signed will benefit. Cut all the pork that our elected oficials hand out to there buddies and there will be enough to totally fund this bill to include all who served since 9/11. The only change acceptable is to make it for time serving in combat theaters.

Who is saying that time doesn't count? You were paid all pay and allowances and you earned a full point for each and every day you were on AD so that time already increases your retirement, should you stay in. You served your country, your state and your unit. Your time served counts just as much today as it did yesterday, nothing was taken from you, just the next time you get more. That's the way it's always been, don't expect it to change. Comes with the territory/profession. Once the 'long war' is over, the long knives will come out in Congress and all this will go away again. Life goes on...

While I feel that this is a travesty for those of us that have mobilized, I have to say that the one mitigating fact is that the money went to those that had to retire early due to service related injuries. Someone should be looking at what it would take to find the money to take care of those that should be covered by the bill and introduce new legislation to cover them. This thing has been in discussion for years and most of us felt it would eventually pass. I feel completely let down by my representatives and the President.

Compensation, Benefits and Services are so very vital and IMPORTANT for that families that have given so very much!
If you would like to TRULY Help our Troops and Veterans??? We need to better fund our Military Family & Veterans' Benefits and Services. This government and everyone from here on out needs to rethink their priorities! It is ever citizens responsibility to fight for funding for the Military Personnel and their families! It is because of you individuals that Choose to put yourselves in harms way that we can sleep Safe and SECURE!

Another important milestone is headed our direction! It is Winter Soldier II Redu??
We as Americans need to Stand Up: Eagles United to defend the Defenders! Read what is on the Horizon.....Would you like to see this generation of Brave Patriot Warriors' reputation for all time scourged by the wanabees and bold faced liars. Unlike the first Winter Soldier event some 40+ years ago that branded a Generation, we must insist that those whom testify Do so under OATH!! watch the following link and "Make A Difference!" BE Active, show DC that Veterans care and are this fighting!!

Eagles Up dot US

God Bless Our Troops, Our Veterans, Our World Leaders, & America!

Respectfully,
Christina Finn

"I have learned that in order to bring about change, you must not be afraid to take the first step. We will fail when we fail to try. Each
and everyone of us can make a difference." Rosa Parks

This message has been edited. Last edited by: PillowLady,

As many of you have noted reservists signed a contract and Congress has decided to actually amend that contract and entitle some future reservists to even more of the government dole. What most have failed to note is that reservists did not sign up to be on and off mobilization at the governement's whim fighting conflicts that have little or no impact on security at home. We are here to be called up when the nation is in dire need of help.. or at least that is what we thought. It appears however that we are simply the cheap active duty. And yes we do volunteer but this is only after being compelled to do so with the threat of mobilization if enough of us fail to volunteer. As an officer I have suffered no ill effects at my regular job but I know of many who have been refused their job upon returning or moved into a less than desirable position as a result of their service. This can easily be done without actually firing a person so you won't find these people out suing their employers.

Congress needs to completely revamp the Guard and Reserve to acurately reflect its real involvment as a part of the nations military. This means changing retirement benefits and strengthening protection from employers who find it inconvenient to employ part time soldiers. Otherwise let's stick to the contract and call up the part timers only when the active duty is about to be over-run! Likewise let's stop using the Reserves and Guard to do peacetime ops that the active duty was to short to do even before the GWOT. If the active duty is too short then its size should be increased rather than trying to creatively mess with the part timers.

I agree with all those who correctly point out that most congressional spending bills are so full of pork that this provision could easily have been offset with a reduction in pork barrel spending.

Hey rmurray100,
Spoken as a true officer...full of crap.
You are evidently out of touch with what is going on, and stuck in time over 20 years in the past.
Sorry to tell you, but if not for the reserve force, we would still be drafting individuals into service. For many of us, we desire to serve on a part-time basis...not for the money, but for the opportunity.
Myself...I lost money during my mobilization (and I'm not a doctor or lawyer) but was proud to serve. I would serve again if called.
I've noticed quite a division between the active duty and reserve components, but only for the mentally challenged members that have no better self-esteem but to put one group down to make themselves feel better.
Best Regards and Prayers to You,
Senior Chief Colyer, USN