RE: http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,190538,00.html

I heard about this story as well, though I haven't seen the video. From what I can garner from the report and this column, the chaplain in question wasn't preaching to the Afghans, or was he? If not, what is the big deal? If he wasn't, why is this author putting so much credibility in the Al Jazeera report?

I'm not too terribly religious, but does "witness for Him" mean to go out and actively convert? Or can it be something as simple as living a good life and by example?

I'm hoping this is more than a hate America (because Al Jazeera is a credible source ) and typical anti- Christianity rant.

This editorial summarizes an article that recently appeared on military.com. Some of the comments that followed the article were pretty disturbing, in that some folks feel that they are entitled to evangelize and/or spread the word of Christianity (or handing out bibles as "gifts", etc.) regardless (or in complete ignorence) of local laws, military/army policy, the potential of creating an international incident, or for that matter getting the recipient killed.

Our leadership apparently has to make it unambiguously clear that any activities of this sort are forbidden as it compromises the mission (whether civilian or military).

It is deeply unfortunate that the support for US efforts by the Afghani people has fallen so far. But our government took their eyes off the ball and concentrated their efforts elsewhere, thereby imperiling this mission. I sincerely hope it isn't too late.

To me it sounds as if the Army handled the mater correctly. I think its disingenuous to site a Chaplain giving a Christian sermon and extrapolate it to accuse him or the others of "spreading the word". Of course a Chaplain is going to give a Christian sermon to Christians, a Jewish sermon to Jews, etc etc.

Having been over seas, many of us got some things we weren't allowed to have and they were immediately sent back.

Unless they are calling the Chaplain a liar when he says he told the soldier that he couldn't distribute the Bibles and had them sent back, this really is a story about how the U.S. Army by way of a Chaplain is taking care in NOT violating General Order 1.

the actual event is not really important. it is how the information can be twisted and used against us. the nazi's were very good at this type of thing.

quote:

Originally posted by DevilDog2847:
RE: http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,190538,00.html

I heard about this story as well, though I haven't seen the video. From what I can garner from the report and this column, the chaplain in question wasn't preaching to the Afghans, or was he? If not, what is the big deal? If he wasn't, why is this author putting so much credibility in the Al Jazeera report?

I'm not too terribly religious, but does "witness for Him" mean to go out and actively convert? Or can it be something as simple as living a good life and by example?

I'm hoping this is more than a hate America (because Al Jazeera is a credible source ) and typical anti- Christianity rant.

Sounds like the Spanish conquistadores all over again. Christianity at swordpoint. Are these guys delusional, or just sorely uneducated?

Don't they realize that muslims have their own doctrine regarding Jeshua? Don't they understand Islam well enough to know that to leave Islam for any other religion (especially Christianity which, because of the doctrine of the trinity, Islam views as a violation of the 1st commandment of the prophet Moses) is apostasy and punishable by death?

These guys, chaplains and servicepersons need to be censured severely. Of course, if they are fundie enough they'll try to turn it into religious persecution.

Don't you just gotta love fanatics . . . whatever their stripe ???

quote:

Originally posted by snyper42:
Sounds like the Spanish conquistadores all over again. Christianity at swordpoint. Are these guys delusional, or just sorely uneducated?

Don't they realize that muslims have their own doctrine regarding Jeshua? Don't they understand Islam well enough to know that to leave Islam for any other religion (especially Christianity which, because of the doctrine of the trinity, Islam views as a violation of the 1st commandment of the prophet Moses) is apostasy and punishable by death?

These guys, chaplains and servicepersons need to be censured severely. Of course, if they are fundie enough they'll try to turn it into religious persecution.

Don't you just gotta love fanatics . . . whatever their stripe ???

Ok... did you actually read the article? I'm curious as to how you drew your conclusions. Please explain because there is no evidence that this Chaplain or anyone else has been "Bible thumping".

Snipr42 seems a bit of a hypocrite. On the one hand he talks about "Cristianity at swordpoint" which is hardly the case of the Al Jazeera propaganda hit piece, but then explains with an undertone of admiration, the 1 law of Islam is to kill anyone who dares to not believe in something other than Islam. Seems like he and the author of this hit piece on Christian soldiers are part of the Islam faciast movement aided and abetted by the Liberal Left in the US. AGNOSTIC Airman

Actually, the #1 "Law of Islam" may just be to kill anyone who dares to "believe in" anything other than Islam... (you meant to say), but I'd have to see it in print to believe it. (After all, it may be rule number #17).

quote:

From the article: The good thing here is that the Army at least publicly recognizes the significance of the story. Unfortunately, it's hard to tell what, if any, action will be taken to prevent this kind of stuff from going on in the future.

Yes, and they also forgot to mention that it is the AF where the problem of trying to baptize Muslims is the worst, almost an institutionalized program for fundamentalist Christian religious fervor, in fact.

quote:

Originally posted by snyper42:
Sounds like the Spanish conquistadores(sic) all over again. Christianity at sword point. Are these guys delusional, or just sorely uneducated?

They are both, sadly.

quote:

Originally posted by cloudancer:
Snipr42 seems a bit of a hypocrite. On the one hand he talks about "Cristianity at swordpoint" which is hardly the case of the Al Jazeera propaganda hit piece, but then explains with an undertone of admiration, the 1 law of Islam is to kill anyone who dares to not believe in something other than Islam. Seems like he and the author of this hit piece on Christian soldiers are part of the Islam faciast movement aided and abetted by the Liberal Left in the US. AGNOSTIC Airman

No admiration at all.

Dont muddy the waters. Focus on your duty, find, fix and destroy the enemy. Protect yourself and your buddies and come home to your loved ones. Dont get confused or sidetracked.

How many 'hounds of heaven' did Jesus deploy?

If memory serves he wasn't very big on finding fixing and destroying his 'enemies', either. But He wasn't confused or sidtracked either.

When it comes to Jesus and COIN, are these Pastors even on the 'right' side?

Evangelical militarists are getting Jesus a bad name too.

GOD Bless America!

When I was deployed, it was perfectly clear during inprocessing that it was forbidden to discuss ANY religion (amongst other things) with the locals.

Look at who the article is coming from. Votevets.org is nothing but a wing of the liberal organization moveon.org. Anything christian will look bad in there eyes.
God Bless America

quote:

Originally posted by cloudancer:
Snipr42 seems a bit of a hypocrite. On the one hand he talks about "Cristianity at swordpoint" which is hardly the case of the Al Jazeera propaganda hit piece, but then explains with an undertone of admiration, the 1 law of Islam is to kill anyone who dares to not believe in something other than Islam. Seems like he and the author of this hit piece on Christian soldiers are part of the Islam faciast movement aided and abetted by the Liberal Left in the US. AGNOSTIC Airman

I am not a muslim, thank you very much. So, that's one wrong assessment. Perhaps there are others?

Great article Mr.Friedman!...
In the last Administration it appears that ones participation in the pentagon prayer circle was a great career advancement tool.Heres an article from GQ magazine showing the source for much of the "bible thumping" in the military....oh yeah,did I mention its not al- jazeera either.This "hindering" Brandon Friedman talks about came all the way from the top.

ON THE MORNING OF Thursday, April 10, 2003, Donald Rumsfeld’s Pentagon prepared a top-secret briefing for George W. Bush. This document, known as the Worldwide Intelligence Update, was a daily digest of critical military intelligence so classified that it circulated among only a handful of Pentagon leaders and the president; Rumsfeld himself often delivered it, by hand, to the White House. The briefing’s cover sheet generally featured triumphant, color images from the previous days’ war efforts: On this particular morning, it showed the statue of Saddam Hussein being pulled down in Firdos Square, a grateful Iraqi child kissing an American soldier, and jubilant crowds thronging the streets of newly liberated Baghdad. And above these images, and just below the headline SECRETARY OF DEFENSE, was a quote that may have raised some eyebrows. It came from the Bible, from the book of Psalms: “Behold, the eye of the Lord is on those who fear Him…To deliver their soul from death.”
This mixing of Crusades-like messaging with war imagery, which until now has not been revealed, had become routine. On March 31, a U.S. tank roared through the desert beneath a quote from Ephesians: “Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.” On April 7, Saddam Hussein struck a dictatorial pose, under this passage from the First Epistle of Peter: “It is God’s will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men.”
These cover sheets were the brainchild of Major General Glen Shaffer, a director for intelligence serving both the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the secretary of defense. In the days before the Iraq war, Shaffer’s staff had created humorous covers in an attempt to alleviate the stress of preparing for battle. Then, as the body counting began, Shaffer, a Christian, deemed the biblical passages more suitable. Several others in the Pentagon disagreed. At least one Muslim analyst in the building had been greatly offended; others privately worried that if these covers were leaked during a war conducted in an Islamic nation, the fallout—as one Pentagon staffer would later say—“would be as bad as Abu Ghraib.” But the Pentagon’s top officials were apparently unconcerned about the effect such a disclosure might have on the conduct of the war or on Bush’s public standing. When colleagues complained to Shaffer that including a religious message with an intelligence briefing seemed inappropriate, Shaffer politely informed them that the practice would continue, because “my seniors”—JCS chairman Richard Myers, Rumsfeld, and the commander in chief himself—appreciated the cover pages.http://men.style.com/gq/features/landing?id=content_9217

Has it occurred to anyone that there are, in fact, Dari and Pashto speaking Christian Afghans? Their number is small, but they are there. They would certainly appreciate the gift of an entire Bible that they could read daily. There are Christian missionaries operating in Afghanistan today in aid and education roles. They are not proselytizing, but Afghans are coming to ask about Christ through their efforts.

I'm most concerned about the military apparently seizing and destroying a soldier's personal property, without due process. This seizure and destruction, if it occurred as implied in various articles, is a violation of the UCMJ.

If distribution of literature is proselytizing, then we have another issue. Korans in English have been made available through the chaplains corps by muslims. Does that constitute proselytizing?

If the soldier simply made a gift of the Bibles to an Afghan christian or a non-Afghan missionary, then general order 1 would be adhered to and everyone's constitutional rights would have been preserved.