http://www.military.com/opinio...15202,192714,00.html

I hope that everyone who ever wore a uniform will follow the lead of IAVA and become active in the fight for the benefits and rights all our Veterans have earned, many times in blood.

For my generation (at one time anyway), the DAV took the lead helping Veterans. Now it is the IAVA which is THE best example of "Veterans helping Veterans".. and this generation of Veterans is going to need champions to fight for them.

And what about the 8 Million such fires Hadji lights daily?

IAVA gets funding from Jonathon Soros, Georges son. It's also tied at the hip to "Democracy in Action" A Leftist organization.

Sorry, but I trust Paul Reickoff's crew as much as I trust Baghdad Bob.

quote:

And what about the 8 Million such fires Hadji lights daily? IAVA gets funding from Jonathon Soros, Georges son. It's also tied at the hip to "Democracy in Action" A Leftist organization. Sorry, but I trust Paul Reickoff's crew as much as I trust Baghdad Bob.

Oh Hogwash. They are not "tied" to any other group except in the way they pursue the Congress on OUR behalf... that is, we Veterans. You say "Leftist" as if you were saying "Lee Harvey Oswald". It's baloney, and your comments are slanderous, especially considering what IAVA has done for the Veterans of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Comparing them to Baghdad Bob is intellectually dishonest, at best.

And how in THE heck would you know what George Soros son gives to the IAVA? And why would that make any difference, whatsoever? They can only accept "donations" as a bona-fide 501(c)3 organization. They MUST raise those funds, or die. They owe nobody.

I have met Paul and I have met his staff. I have worked with them. They have NO political affiliations that are public in nature, and they pledge their allegiance to only one group... United States Veterans.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Weatherguesser,

quote:

... that are public in nature ...

Not if they want to maintain their tax exempt status ... but it is the "not public" ones that are of concern.

Wow, I hear that guy talking about run time. I used to be a fast girl, clocking a 16 min two mile, easy. Now it's all I can do to pass a PT test. Persistent cough, can't keep up at PT, short of breath when I run (sometimes when I don't run.) I don't think it was just the burn pits. Every Iraqi over fifty sounds like they have Black Lung. There's oil refineries that make no effort to filter anything they're burning off, there's the dust, there's the general lack of plumbing which means a good portion of that dust is human waste, there's smog (no EPA to help us out over there.)

I have air sample pages in my medical records full of multi-syllable chemicals infixed with numbers. Some of the pages say something to the effect of "exposure may impact operations negatively in the short term."

IAVA seems like an alright group of people. I've logged onto their forum several times, and it's kind of nice to post in an environment where most everyone has been there and done that.

I've joined the VFW as well, but haven't pursued any kind of a meeting or anything.

You bring up some excellent points, Ruanne.

For five years, I headed up the team that screened applicants for positions as Peace Corps Volunteers. Those who had histories of asthma, chronic bronchitis, COPD or other chronic respiratory difficulties were restricted from serving in countries where the air was heavily polluted. Unfortunately, that included most all third-world countries (the Peace Corps' environment of choice) with any industrialization: Eastern Europe, China, much of Asia, parts of South America, the Indian subcontinent.

Outside of "Fortress America" and western Europe, there is little to no oversight of air pollution. Industrial gases, auto exhaust, smoke from countless fires of dubious origin used for heat, cooking, work ... all go up unregulated.

I can remember when much of our own country - particularly the industrial northeast and midwest - looked like pictures of downtown Beijing on a bad day. Many here rail on about the Nanny Government, but without the strong arm of the Feds throughout the '70s, '80s and '90s (covering administrations of both parties), we would be seeing the same sorts of medical problems among our civilian population that puzzle us when they pop up in military servicepeople who have been exposed to these pollutants while serving overseas.

What is wrong with the leadership? Are there no officers with technical degrees who should see what is obvious by inspection--you don't put burn pits upwind of living areas? This reminds me of my Vietnam days with the human solid waste burn pit upwind from the dining facility. What a way to ruin your appetite!

If you have a burn pit, you limit it to celulosics--wood and paper, not polyvinyl chloride (PVC), polystyrene, body parts, and petroleum wastes. If you have to burn the latter wastes, do it somewhere that will not affect the troops or the local civilians.

The military should have chemists and environmental engineers on the staff to consult and supervise burn pit set-ups and operations. If they don't have them on active duty, look us up on the retiree roles. I'd do it for three hots and a cot (no pay) even with my 100% disabled status.

M. J. Keenan, Ph.D.
LTC (Ret), AUS

Of course there are, MJK, but while there may be prevailing winds, the winds don't blow in one direction 100% of the time. And logistics may or may not allow for more than one burn pit. Smaller FOBs and outposts are often lucky to have a burn pit at all ...

How long has it been since you were in the field?

quote:

Originally posted by LineDoggie:
And what about the 8 Million such fires Hadji lights daily?

IAVA gets funding from Jonathon Soros, Georges son. It's also tied at the hip to "Democracy in Action" A Leftist organization.

Sorry, but I trust Paul Reickoff's crew as much as I trust Baghdad Bob.

God forbid liberals, progressives and Democrats who happen to be veterans should join with other veterans to help veterans. Has it occurred to you that since the IAVA has taken the forefront in fighting for veterans benefits, you comments make you sound very much like a right wing extremist?

Call me what you like but I've been to Iraq and seen the Thousands upon Thousands of Fires burning everyday in Muhallas throughout Baghdad for example.

Typical Sceanario:

Iraqi man has Garbage

Iraq Man piles up various items of Garbage at edge of Property

Iraqi Man piles on several old auto tires and 2-3 gallons of Benzine

Adds Fire to Pile


Repeat daily around 3pm, and again at 9am

get on some high ground in Baghdad and it looks like entire areas of the city are burning thick black smoke.

Compared to that the Burn pit we had at RPC was pretty well regulated as to what could be burned. And we had a Seperate Burn Barrel near our OPCEN for sensitive material that we personally burned and checked the ashes to make sure they were unusable for intel purposes.

Walk on patrol through al-Ameriya, or Radwiniya, Mansour, Jihad muhallas without having to daily walk through clouds of smoke. Yeah I'm going to blame everything on the Mil so I can get a check

oh, oh..... sounds to me like the lower EM's won't be burning schit anymore........ to bad, every troop should have that experience at least once.

I spent months and months in afghanistan and Iraq, and I feel perfectly healthy.

quote:

Originally posted by Ruanne:
Wow, I hear that guy talking about run time. I used to be a fast girl, clocking a 16 min two mile, easy. Now it's all I can do to pass a PT test. Persistent cough, can't keep up at PT, short of breath when I run (sometimes when I don't run.) I don't think it was just the burn pits. Every Iraqi over fifty sounds like they have Black Lung. There's oil refineries that make no effort to filter anything they're burning off, there's the dust, there's the general lack of plumbing which means a good portion of that dust is human waste, there's smog (no EPA to help us out over there.)

I have air sample pages in my medical records full of multi-syllable chemicals infixed with numbers. Some of the pages say something to the effect of "exposure may impact operations negatively in the short term."

IAVA seems like an alright group of people. I've logged onto their forum several times, and it's kind of nice to post in an environment where most everyone has been there and done that.

I've joined the VFW as well, but haven't pursued any kind of a meeting or anything.

Did my four to six miles every morning up until my late fifties. Wasn't the lungs but a blockage before the heart that kept me from the four minute mile. Sounded like a good excuse anyway. The quad bypass has kept me vertical but the running days ended. Get a stress test. None of my business but to give you an idea you're not alone.

quote:

Originally posted by LineDoggie:
Call me what you like but I've been to Iraq and seen the Thousands upon Thousands of Fires burning everyday in Muhallas throughout Baghdad for example.

Typical Sceanario:

Iraqi man has Garbage

Iraq Man piles up various items of Garbage at edge of Property

Iraqi Man piles on several old auto tires and 2-3 gallons of Benzine

Adds Fire to Pile


Repeat daily around 3pm, and again at 9am

get on some high ground in Baghdad and it looks like entire areas of the city are burning thick black smoke.

Compared to that the Burn pit we had at RPC was pretty well regulated as to what could be burned. And we had a Seperate Burn Barrel near our OPCEN for sensitive material that we personally burned and checked the ashes to make sure they were unusable for intel purposes.

Walk on patrol through al-Ameriya, or Radwiniya, Mansour, Jihad muhallas without having to daily walk through clouds of smoke. Yeah I'm going to blame everything on the Mil so I can get a check

So now you're pegging sick vets because they don't have your stamina, constitution, good fortune, whatever.

I hope you live a long, healthy life to serve as an example to those who might someday get the notion that 'real' vets don't 'suffer' from their service.

I think you're losing this one Doggie.

Here's something along the same line that might interest you:

>http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/650299

Troops who served in some parts of Iraq have come back with bronchiolitis, which is typically only seen in newborns and the elderly, and is serious enough that they are rated close to 100% disability for it. Many others have come back with low-grade irritation and allergy-like symptoms. It's not a big deal, like Traumatic Brain Injury or PTSD, but it can affect your PT scores, which in turn can prevent you from getting promoted.

I served 27 months over there. Several of the guys I served with had served 40 months.

quote:

Originally posted by AliBubba:

So now you're pegging sick vets because they don't have your stamina, constitution, good fortune, whatever.

I hope you live a long, healthy life to serve as an example to those who might someday get the notion that 'real' vets don't 'suffer' from their service.

I think you're losing this one Doggie.

Here's something along the same line that might interest you:

Frankly, I dont care what you think, or your opinion of me. I base my observations and what I've personally witnessed in Iraq. And From Fellow Soldiers who were advised to put in for claims by VA Councilors when they admitted they didnt have the Symptoms. I myself was advised to put in a 30% claim based on a ridiculous form we filled out.

Asked if we were ever under enemy fire, both Small Arms or Indirect: Check

More than once: Check

Did we ever see people Hurt or Dead: Check

Were we ever at Risk of Death or Capture: Check

How many times did we go out side the perimeter per week? 7

Considering we patrolled every single night, all night in a 12 man section, and part of Our job was to find, & indentify IED's. That we daily came under Mortar, Rocket fires, Nightly under Sniper fire or Automatic Weapons fire.Several times under Friendly Fire (Good Old 3ID) In the Infantry that is the Norm in a combat theater of operations.

I personally know of people who deliberately played up Claims. One Soldier claimed PTSD from a VBIED that happened while he was in the USA on Leave. He wasnt there, Period. Yet claimed it to get a Higher compensation rate. Another for weeks before we left Kuwait bragged about how he was going to claim he was looney from service to "Set Himself up for Life" did himself a good job, he got let go from his civvie job that required he carry a gun. He's still trying to fix that mess.

Another Soldier who had Seizures as a child and hid that fact from the recruiters, later claimed his seizures were from Iraq Service. Only reason he got busted was he had told too many people and a records check showed he indeed had a Pre-existing condition. UCMJ time for him.

I know plenty of really hurt, really suffering men, and the above fraudsters hurt their cause.

There's a hundred things that can cause those symptoms, not all due to burn pits, but only one Uncle Sugar who will pay.

quote:

Originally posted by Ruanne:
Wow, I hear that guy talking about run time. I used to be a fast girl, clocking a 16 min two mile, easy. Now it's all I can do to pass a PT test. Persistent cough, can't keep up at PT, short of breath when I run (sometimes when I don't run.) I don't think it was just the burn pits. Every Iraqi over fifty sounds like they have Black Lung. There's oil refineries that make no effort to filter anything they're burning off, there's the dust, there's the general lack of plumbing which means a good portion of that dust is human waste, there's smog (no EPA to help us out over there.)

I have air sample pages in my medical records full of multi-syllable chemicals infixed with numbers. Some of the pages say something to the effect of "exposure may impact operations negatively in the short term."

IAVA seems like an alright group of people. I've logged onto their forum several times, and it's kind of nice to post in an environment where most everyone has been there and done that.

I've joined the VFW as well, but haven't pursued any kind of a meeting or anything.

You are right about the Iraqis sounding like they have black lung. The burn pits, oil refineries, and dust are probably part of the problem, but it doesn't help the Iraqis that many of them are chain smokers. I spent 15 months there as an advisor and spent a lot of that in close quarters with Iraqis that would light up one after the other. I wonder if second hand smoke exposure is covered by the VA.

quote:

Originally posted by TedBundy09:
I spent months and months in afghanistan and Iraq, and I feel perfectly healthy.

Suspended? Wow that didnt take long.

quote:

Originally posted by LineDoggie:
Call me what you like but I've been to Iraq and seen the Thousands upon Thousands of Fires burning everyday in Muhallas throughout Baghdad for example.

Typical Sceanario:
Iraqi man has Garbage
Iraq Man piles up various items of Garbage at edge of Property
Iraqi Man piles on several old auto tires and 2-3 gallons of Benzine?

Adds Fire to Pile
Repeat daily around 3pm, and again at 9am get on some high ground in Baghdad and it looks like entire areas of the city are burning thick black smoke.

Compared to that the Burn pit we had at RPC was pretty well regulated as to what could be burned. And we had a Seperate Burn Barrel near our OPCEN for sensitive material that we personally burned and checked the ashes to make sure they were unusable for intel purposes.

Walk on patrol through al-Ameriya, or Radwiniya, Mansour, Jihad muhallas without having to daily walk through clouds of smoke. Yeah I'm going to blame everything on the Mil so I can get a check

From your profile it would seem that you already get that check(retired E-6?), or you are a liar.
So which is it?

Also, 2-3 gallons of "Benzene"? I should think that is enough to kill every living thing within 5 miles of those fires, perhaps much more, and no matter how little of the resulting smoke they breath.

You are quite likely, full of gas.

weatherguesser, I'll repeat the question (still unanswered) that I posed to MJK: when was the last time you were in the field?

The Army doesn't get to choose where it gets sent, and so far we've not fought many wars in Aruba, the Swiss Alps, Bermuda or other places with pristine air and water. As long as we keep sending troops to third world backwater hellholes, where people burn their trash, heat with lumps of coal or dung, where the climate is prone to extremes ... they'll come back with bad stuff.

How is that the military's fault? Prove connection between military service and symptoms/disease, and you'll get compensation, but stop making like it's some sort of neglect or deliberate action on the part of "the military." How paranoid can you get?