RE: http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,184538,00.html

God, how in the world did we get our country into this mess - if I had to guess, I would say the word is "GREED". Wall Street, bankers, real estate professionals, and two wars at the same time have made many wealthy and life miserable for many. I now see men and women begging on the street corner. Hopefully, we'll get out of this quagmire within the year.

They cut the budget in 2009! We have been struggling this entire fiscal year. If they cut us any more, I don't know how we will function? We are short staffed and since the govt. also cut overtime to the Army civilians (they can work 10 hours of overtime each per YEAR). Amazing.

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The average pay raise for troops has stayed at least 0.5 percent above private sector increases for the last 10 years, and simply keeping it equal with inflation projections for 2010 would guarantee a raise of about 3 percent.

What isn't mentioned here is that the .5% "above private sector increases" were written into law in an effort to get military pay up to the point where it is comparable to civilian pay ... and it still isn't there yet.

The way it is written by the article's author, you'd think the military was getting over ... when the opposite is true.

Note that last year the military pay raise was 3.9% ... COLA for SS recipients and retirees was 5.8%.

I suspect some of the more costly hardware systems and programs are where the pinch is going to be felt the worst, and that pay raises and benefits for the troops isn't going to go down.

As it is, our defense budget exceeds that of all other countries COMBINED.

PhoenixDark,

Our defense budget is also only 5% of the US' GDP compared to 50% during WWII. Not much at all when you compare it to all of the "entitlements" handed out to non-workers and questionable institutions.

Meanwhile, the National Endowment for Arts and Planned Parenthoold get their money while our warriors fight with antiquated weapons platforms; some older than 60 years old.

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Originally posted by yanqui69:
Our defense budget is also only 5% of the US' GDP compared to 50% during WWII. Not much at all when you compare it to all of the "entitlements" handed out to non-workers and questionable institutions.

Meanwhile, the National Endowment for Arts and Planned Parenthoold get their money while our warriors fight with antiquated weapons platforms; some older than 60 years old.

It is a lot when compared with where many voters want their dollars spent. They elect the people who support NEA (and others); just as much as you cry about supporting them, they cry about your reps supporting the military.

Next, talking about defense cuts and enacting defense cuts are two different things. Obama may not like the F22 and new destroyers or FCS, but every single one of those programs represents JOBS in influential senators' and reps' districts. Obama will have a very hard time selling job cuts right now.

Finally, dig at 60 year old weapons platforms? Okay, yeah, my unit deployed with Browning M2s built in the 50's. Guess what...they work. Replace a few springs and a worn charging handle, a few minutes' instruction with a headspace & timing gage, and they functioned flawlessly. They work so well that the military STILL hasn't come up with a true replacement, even though they've tried (Mk 19). They currently are working on a replacement...basically the same thing that doesn't require headspace and timing to be set and maintained by the gunner...arguably the ONLY downside of the M2 (and that is a training issue; NOT a shortcoming of the weapon system).

Don't sit there and imply that the military is broke because we poor little lambs are forced to use "antiquated" systems like the M2. I'd just as soon the gubbmint sling some money at planned parenthood and keep their crumbsnatchers off our ma dueces. Besides, modernization isn't going to take the hit everyone thinks it will. It represents a lot of jobs, and nothing is going to get through Congress that costs jobs.

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Originally posted by RichardSl:I now see men and women begging on the street corner. Hopefully, we'll get out of this quagmire within the year.

It was just as bad in the last part of the Clinton administration, but it decreased somewhat with the tax cuts that turned the recession around in Bush's first term. Keep in mind that the reported homelessness and begging and anything unpleasant and bad always grows overnight when pachyderms are elected into office and soon decrease when jacaksses get elected. Just check with the media muggers in the so-called mainstream (sidestream!) media, if one is sucker enough to swallow their swill.

To all the NCOs and officers that told me how much they loved the military and how they would do it for free, here is your chance.

During this economic crisis and it is a crisis, there are going to be cuts in many places and the military is not exempt. As stated earlier, our defense budget is the largest in the world and could stand some fat and waste trimming. Our military has all the money they need, what they do need is better management and oversight to allocate their funds more effectively and efficiently. The old cry of give me more, more, more and there is never enough. It is time to make do with what you have and stop the waste, cost overrides, and development of weapon systems we do not need.

"And the analyst said that if personnel issues escape cuts in the fiscal 2010 budget, that's not a guarantee they will remain fully funded in 2011, especially if the economic outlook worsens over the next year."


We-he-helllll... Mr Obama, Ms Pelosi, Mr Reid, and the rest of the Dems are just fine ratcheting up the bail-out of America's corporations into the TRILLIONS. They make a small squabble over golden parachutes for the Board Members of these "institutions", but I believe they don't really mean it. The proof in this statement is that they won't say a word about Corpoate excesses with TARP money until a news agency does. Then they get all indignant and find a quick quote or sound-bite for our new savior, I mean President.

Then they have the nerve to turn right around and tell the Military Community that their pay and bennies are NOT sacred and fair game past 2010. I hope all of you who cast your ballot for him are mighty proud of yourselves. Don't complain too loud though, because ya'll brought it on yourselves.

Go ahead and vote for a man whom told you outright what he was gonna do. Made all of those disparaging remarks and interviews about how he felt we (in the Military) were basically over-privelleged and we were going to get the cut deep. So much for all of you Dems savior.

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Originally posted by qsam6:
To all the NCOs and officers that told me how much they loved the military and how they would do it for free, here is your chance.

That is just about retarded to even say. Yes, we all love the military - but, we have families and bills and expenses just like the next guy.

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Originally posted by PhoenixDark:
I suspect some of the more costly hardware systems and programs are where the pinch is going to be felt the worst, and that pay raises and benefits for the troops isn't going to go down.

As it is, our defense budget exceeds that of all other countries COMBINED.

So? Try comparing it as a percentage of GDP and see what you come up with. Comparing raw budget size is meaningless ... unless you are looking to oursource our military to one of those "other countries".

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Originally posted by RRR52:

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Originally posted by RichardSl:I now see men and women begging on the street corner. Hopefully, we'll get out of this quagmire within the year.

It was just as bad in the last part of the Clinton administration, but it decreased somewhat with the tax cuts that turned the recession around in Bush's first term. Keep in mind that the reported homelessness and begging and anything unpleasant and bad always grows overnight when pachyderms are elected into office and soon decrease when jacaksses get elected. Just check with the media muggers in the so-called mainstream (sidestream!) media, if one is sucker enough to swallow their swill.

HOW did tax cuts turn the economy around??? When were they enacted????

Since 1982 congress passed a bill that will give them an automatic pay raise of 13% if know onevotes against it. The only time that they have to vote is if its higher then the 13%. I'll bet they will not cut that one out..................................

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Originally posted by qsam6:
To all the NCOs and officers that told me how much they loved the military and how they would do it for free, here is your chance.

I don't know about that, but you are going to see soldiers walking away when hyper-inflation kicks in, just like the soviets did. So much for the military being "recession proof" like I heard 20 times at a retention briefing with the BN CO and SM.

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Originally posted by ENYVTHS:
Since 1982 congress passed a bill that will give them an automatic pay raise of 13% if know onevotes(sic) against it. The only time that they have to vote is if its higher then the 13%. I'll bet they will not cut that one out..................................

WHO? I believe this is FALSE.

yanqui69;

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Not much at all when you compare it to all of the "entitlements" handed out to non-workers and questionable institutions.

Name #3 of each.

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Originally posted by lloyd95:

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Originally posted by qsam6:
To all the NCOs and officers that told me how much they loved the military and how they would do it for free, here is your chance.

I don't know about that, but you are going to see soldiers walking away when hyper-inflation kicks in, just like the soviets did. So much for the military being "recession proof" like I heard 20 times at a retention briefing with the BN CO and SM.

Oh Bull.

Soviet Soldiers made about $100 a month, and lived under a Communist Dictatorship. I'd run from that too, no matter how much they paid me.

Get a grip.

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Originally posted by ENYVTHS:
Since 1982 congress passed a bill that will give them an automatic pay raise of 13% if know onevotes against it. The only time that they have to vote is if its higher then the 13%. I'll bet they will not cut that one out..................................

LOL ... actually the automatic pay raise was included in a 1989 ethics law ... and it isn't 13%. It is tied to the Labor Department's Employment Cost Index (ECI) that varies year over year.

This year the Congressional pay increase was 2.8%. Compare that to the 3.9% military pay increase and the 5.8% COLA increase for SS recipients and covered retirees and one might even make the case that Congress shortchanges itself.

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Originally posted by Persy:

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Originally posted by qsam6:
To all the NCOs and officers that told me how much they loved the military and how they would do it for free, here is your chance.

That is just about retarded to even say. Yes, we all love the military - but, we have families and bills and expenses just like the next guy.

Who cares?
No. Really think about it. Who really cares about military issues and the needs of those who serve. Who will provide for the weapons and technology required to defend and protect today?
I believe I voted accordingly for many years. Money will be tight, and like everyone else, defense department spending will feel the pain too. Now that selections will be made for cuts, do we have people in office to do it with wisdom?
I think the last election was a huge mistake for the American people. Not any one person. We have one party with too much power and they are drunk with it. The only thing holding them in check is the prospect of the next election. If they can change anything concerning elections, we may be in serious trouble with our freedom. A measure of wisdom from Washington is needed and they may be in short supply.