RE: http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,182434,00.html

Perhaps the wrong industry executive is quoted in the last paragraph?

Twister

If greedy companies did not take advantage of the government and charge so much for this equipment, the troops could have the best and lightest.

What ever happened to the "real" foot soldier? My Dad landed on Omaha Beach, was a BAR Gunner and walked all the way to Germany & walked into many a German mine-field! Our Army is turning into a bunch of high tech "wimps!" They carry so much crap they can't even move! Now they have to have "knee" pads as well to keep the gravel and debris from poking their knees...gezz what next...body armor that's tooo heavy???

Yeah, The Buffaloes and Cougars are made by Force Protection, not BAE.

If vehicle makers need weight reduction, then they should eat less and exercise more.

quote:

Originally posted by 14235339:
What ever happened to the "real" foot soldier? My Dad landed on Omaha Beach, was a BAR Gunner and walked all the way to Germany & walked into many a German mine-field! Our Army is turning into a bunch of high tech "wimps!" They carry so much crap they can't even move! Now they have to have "knee" pads as well to keep the gravel and debris from poking their knees...gezz what next...body armor that's tooo heavy???

In regard to your comments about U.S soldiers being “wimps”, overloaded, and too reliant on technology I could not disagree with you more.

The United States Army combat Soldier is an impressive and well trained professional. It is true that the average soldier carries an over 65 pounds of body armor, ammunition, communications equipment, medical supplies, optics, water, food and personal weapon. However, we train “loaded” with all gear. The average combat arms soldier can sprint over 5 blocks in this gear then fire his weapon accurately. In the same gear ground soldiers are conditioned to operate for missions that exceed 24 hours. These soldiers also arrive fresh and safe to the fight in helicopters, Strykers and MRAPs. Keep in mind today’s warfare in the urban environment is block to block and building to building not the forests of Europe. And yes, when you find yourself on patrol in the streets of Baghdad, taking a knee to return fire every 3 minutes, knee pads become a mission essential item of equipment.

We also train to operate without our technological advantages such as global positioning systems (GPS) or access to precision guided weapons or close air support (CAS). My soldiers can navigate expertly with a paper map, pace count and magnetic compass. They can adjust devastating artillery fire with a basic set of binoculars and a radio. The current combat arms soldier’s marksmanship training is unsurpassed by previous generations. Technology has not caused us to loose our basic soldier skills. Technology is simply the razors edge on an already lethally sharp blade.

With all due respect the heroic sacrifice of your father, the “real” foot soldier hasn’t disappeared he has evolved.

Regards,

--AR

Wat kinds of vehicles do the S. African military use? I would take a close look since they have been dealing with mines etc. for years.

Well said RADBULL. I would only add that our Revolutionary war soldiers did just fine with muzzle loaders but that doesn't mean they would be effective on today's battlefields. When the Greatest Generation was storming the beaches of Normandy and Okinawa we had millions of patriots under arms and losing several thousand in a single battle was not uncommon. I don't think anyone today would view such losses as acceptable today. The technology our troops use is heavy and expensive but it makes them the most lethal and well protected forces ever seen by the enemies that would subjugate all of us given the chance.

quote:

Originally posted by 14235339:
What ever happened to the "real" foot soldier? My Dad landed on Omaha Beach, was a BAR Gunner and walked all the way to Germany & walked into many a German mine-field! Our Army is turning into a bunch of high tech "wimps!" They carry so much crap they can't even move! Now they have to have "knee" pads as well to keep the gravel and debris from poking their knees...gezz what next...body armor that's tooo heavy???

Take a look at the weight carried by our troopers going into battle, at many thousands of feet of elevation, marching at a good clip up steep slopes. Any thought that these guys are less physically fit seems unfounded.

And read "The Soldiers Load and the Mobility of a Nation" by SLA Marshall. Then tell us how you view the toting of heavy weight into battle.

We should be making their loads as light as possible, if we want them to be effective in battle.

The southern infantry soldier carried his musket, a blanket, hardtack, bacon fat and usually barefooted. His pride carried him most of the way. They won the battle but lost the war. Today's scientific approach to war says that many calories of chow daily is needed for the fighting man.



From Shakespeare's Richard III, 1591/2:

CATESBY:
Rescue, my Lord of Norfolk, rescue, rescue!
The king enacts more wonders than a man,
Daring an opposite to every danger:
His horse is slain, and all on foot he fights,
Seeking for Richmond in the throat of death.
Rescue, fair lord, or else the day is lost!

KING RICHARD III:
A horse! a horse! my kingdom for a horse!

CATESBY:
Withdraw, my lord; I'll help you to a horse.

quote:

Originally posted by 14235339:
What ever happened to the "real" foot soldier? My Dad landed on Omaha Beach, was a BAR Gunner and walked all the way to Germany & walked into many a German mine-field! Our Army is turning into a bunch of high tech "wimps!" They carry so much crap they can't even move! Now they have to have "knee" pads as well to keep the gravel and debris from poking their knees...gezz what next...body armor that's tooo heavy???

I don't know whether or not your Dad is alive but I do not believe that he would endorse your statement. Anyone who has been in combat and under enemy fire knows better.

We, in WW II, wished we had any item or material that might protect us from enemy fire or shelling. The guys in Iraq and Afghanistan wish that they had greater personal protection than they have -- and they deserve it. As to knee pads, if you have ever "hit the ground" with gravel or barbed wire or glass shards or thorns, you would know the value of knee pads -- we did not have them in WW II.

Any complaints about the equipting of our troops are unfair complaints. And, let me add, OUR GUYS ARE REAL SOLDIERS.

Having not been too long out of uniform, the complaint that GIs are expected to carry too much is a credible one. I look at the pictures of our soldiers humping all that junk up a mountain ridge in pursuit of a sandal-clad enemy who is probably carrying an RPG or an AK with three magazines and running up that path ahead of him like a deer or mountain goat. I don't know what to tell you except all that equipment can kill the wearer just as sure as a bullet through fatigue, stress, and dehydration. There has to be some trade-offs. Just like servicemen in WW II Korea and Vietnam discarded non-essential items like gasmasks, etc., the soldier has to do that. Instead of knee pads, pants should be double thick in the knees and butt, maybe with a thin sheet of kevlar. Same with the shirt elbows and shoulder tops. Maybe the shirt should have a layer or two of kevlar in the front and back, so the vest could be left with the kit or vehicle. Better to use terrain as cover than trying to carry a fortress wrapped around your body everywhere you go. I couldn't believe how heavy a kevlar helmet was, yet you can't wash or cook in it like a steel pot. They should make the liner out of kevlar instead of fiberglass and go back to the steel pot.

A light mobile fast soldier probably has as good or better chance of being safe on the battle field as one all weighted down with everything under the sun, but can't run through the brush any better than a penguin - a very easily targeted penguin - -