RE: http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,182037_2,00.html
1) Obama ain't the Prez yet. That'll happen in exactly three weeks.
2) Wolfowitz was proposing a permanent American base of about 30K troops as far back as '98 if not before. The Invasion seems to have made that a self-fulfilling prophecy.[see PNAC documents, Senate testimony in '98]
3) When the current President responded to the anti-Iraq-War "mandate" of the '06 election by initiating not a deescalation but a "surge"(i.e. escalation) he successfully negated any chance of a significant withdrawal of forces during his term, assured the status quo of multiple insurgencies, assured the continuation of Guantanamo and other "detention" programs, and made darn sure the "Iraq problem" would be dumped in the lap (or thrown in the face) of the next President who we now know to be Mr. Obama.
4) In the spirit of "self-fulfilling prophecy" the Bush/Cheney Administration may have already created so much havoc in the Middle East that decades of military involvement are virtually guaranteed no matter who we elect. Like the victim of an accidental shooting by a fool showing off his new gun, you can stop the bleeding but you might not save the limb.

quote:

Originally posted by bwf27:
RE: http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,182037_2,00.html
1) Obama ain't the Prez yet. That'll happen in exactly three weeks.
2) Wolfowitz was proposing a permanent American base of about 30K troops as far back as '98 if not before. The Invasion seems to have made that a self-fulfilling prophecy.[see PNAC documents, Senate testimony in '98]
3) When the current President responded to the anti-Iraq-War "mandate" of the '06 election by initiating not a deescalation but a "surge"(i.e. escalation) he successfully negated any chance of a significant withdrawal of forces during his term, assured the status quo of multiple insurgencies, assured the continuation of Guantanamo and other "detention" programs, and made darn sure the "Iraq problem" would be dumped in the lap (or thrown in the face) of the next President who we now know to be Mr. Obama.
4) In the spirit of "self-fulfilling prophecy" the Bush/Cheney Administration may have already created so much havoc in the Middle East that decades of military involvement are virtually guaranteed no matter who we elect. Like the victim of an accidental shooting by a fool showing off his new gun, you can stop the bleeding but you might not save the limb.

Bush WON the war in Iraq with the surge...choke on that fact.

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Bush WON the war in Iraq with the surge...choke on that fact.

He fixed something he never should have broken in the first place.

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Originally posted by crackerjacks61:

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Bush WON the war in Iraq with the surge...choke on that fact.

He fixed something he never should have broken in the first place.

What makes you think you are entitled to an opinion?

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Originally posted by threerings:
Bush WON the war in Iraq with the surge...choke on that fact.

The Iraqi government is not stable.

The security situation in Iraq is “fragile and reversible.”

al Qaeda is still active in Iraq.

Not one of the groups that are responsible for killing American troops in the past five plus years has been defeated or neutralized.

How is the war in Iraq won?

hell iraq been broken since saddam first took power....probity even longer then that...we found out how bad saddam was in the 80s when we supported him somewhat and we cut ties to him after the area settled down a bit and saddam took it and went to the extream.... his sons terrorized the whole country in their wrath of blood and lust.... hell someone had to step up and do what was needed to be done since the 80s.....

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Originally posted by threerings:

quote:

Originally posted by crackerjacks61:

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Bush WON the war in Iraq with the surge...choke on that fact.

He fixed something he never should have broken in the first place.

What makes you think you are entitled to an opinion?

threerings, knock it off.

So what whould you like the new president to do?

1) Total and complete withdraw of US Forces from Iraq in his 90 Days in Office?

2) Keep troop levels where they are at for the unseen future?

3) Gradual combat troop withdraw as Iraqi forces step up with a permanant presence like in the former Yugoslavia?

Please let us know what you think.

quote:

Originally posted by xerello:

quote:

Originally posted by threerings:
Bush WON the war in Iraq with the surge...choke on that fact.

The Iraqi government is not stable.

The security situation in Iraq is “fragile and reversible.”

al Qaeda is still active in Iraq.

Not one of the groups that are responsible for killing American troops in the past five plus years has been defeated or neutralized.

How is the war in Iraq won?

Xero
Again you embarass yourself. the statement you've made is a direct slap at the armed forces that participated establishing giving effort, time and blood. today we see a government, infrastructure, schools, banks, freedoms, absent of Saddam Hussein who was a contributor to world terrorism. And you call it a failure?

Hating Bush, Cheney, and Paul Brenner does not equate to your dumb statement.

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like in the former Yugoslavia?

how did that go for them????

quote:

Originally posted by xerello:

quote:

Originally posted by threerings:
Bush WON the war in Iraq with the surge...choke on that fact.

The Iraqi government is not stable.

The security situation in Iraq is “fragile and reversible.”

al Qaeda is still active in Iraq.

Not one of the groups that are responsible for killing American troops in the past five plus years has been defeated or neutralized.
How is the war in Iraq won?

What? You mean paying them off doesn't count??

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how did that go for them????

I think we're still there.

quote:

Originally posted by rayevinsonsr:

quote:

Originally posted by xerello:

quote:

Originally posted by threerings:
Bush WON the war in Iraq with the surge...choke on that fact.

The Iraqi government is not stable.

The security situation in Iraq is “fragile and reversible.”

al Qaeda is still active in Iraq.

Not one of the groups that are responsible for killing American troops in the past five plus years has been defeated or neutralized.

How is the war in Iraq won?

Xero
Again you embarass yourself. the statement you've made is a direct slap at the armed forces that participated establishing giving effort, time and blood. today we see a government, infrastructure, schools, banks, freedoms, absent of Saddam Hussein who was a contributor to world terrorism. And you call it a failure?

Hating Bush, Cheney, and Paul Brenner does not equate to your dumb statement.

vinso
No where did I say that American troops have failed to do their job. They were supposed to put a lid on the violence, they have done just that.

The mission in Iraq, as defined by President Bush is “a free Iraq that is democratic, that can govern itself, defend itself and sustain itself, and be a strong ally in this war against radicals and extremists who would do us harm.”

The Iraqi government is among the most corrupt in the world, must govern from a fortress and cannot provide basic services to the majority of its people.

If you think that is a government that can defend itself and sustain itself that is because you are a bushie and have to have very low expectations.

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Originally posted by shuman14:

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how did that go for them????

I think we're still there.

no for Yugoslavia???

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Originally posted by xerello:

quote:

Originally posted by rayevinsonsr:

quote:

Originally posted by xerello:

quote:

Originally posted by threerings:
Bush WON the war in Iraq with the surge...choke on that fact.

The Iraqi government is not stable.

The security situation in Iraq is “fragile and reversible.”

al Qaeda is still active in Iraq.

Not one of the groups that are responsible for killing American troops in the past five plus years has been defeated or neutralized.

How is the war in Iraq won?

Xero
Again you embarass yourself. the statement you've made is a direct slap at the armed forces that participated establishing giving effort, time and blood. today we see a government, infrastructure, schools, banks, freedoms, absent of Saddam Hussein who was a contributor to world terrorism. And you call it a failure?

Hating Bush, Cheney, and Paul Brenner does not equate to your dumb statement.

vinso
No where did I say that American troops have failed to do their job. They were supposed to put a lid on the violence, they have done just that.

The mission in Iraq, as defined by President Bush is “a free Iraq that is democratic, that can govern itself, defend itself and sustain itself, and be a strong ally in this war against radicals and extremists who would do us harm.”

The Iraqi government is among the most corrupt in the world, must govern from a fortress and cannot provide basic services to the majority of its people.

If you think that is a government that can defend itself and sustain itself that is because you are a bushie and have to have very low expectations.

Ok. Did you hear that Pakistan has shut down our supply route in their country? They said American but all the multi-force countries use it as well. Your reasoning can be made for Afghanistan, probably moreso with this country, or hundreds of others that I can think of including the one we supply international credits to. Poppy growing had a bumper crop this year for the Afghani. If my expectations were too high I probably would never made it this far in this crazy world. As taught at a very early age, don't expect perfection in a imperfect world.

Man I must have stumbled on the P1ss1n' vinegar crowd!!! From Huber who talks like he hates the US military to people who are so upset with President Bush they can't see straight. I get what everyone is saying, heres the problem though. Regardless of your view on going into Iraq, not one of you is on the ground there, including heir Huber, to give a valide level headed opinion. It going to be tainted by your political ideals. No one can say that the surge in Iraq has not worked. They went from 160-180 attacks a month to around 10... Thats according to a military officer on the ground in Iraq. Whats the Huber? He's biased or spewing propoganda? Of course he is (read you're a moron)!!! Well try talking to Michael Yon, an on the ground blogger who see's whats going on and talks to Iraqis. The same management that has brought us this huge change is implementing it into almost forgotten war that needs to be finished. I'm going to trust people with boots on the ground first before I start spouting off at the mouth with information that is inaccurate at best. Do I have a right to say this? I think I've earned it with having had been a pair of boots on both grounds and still working in the intelligence field. So Huber and the rest of you enjoy spiting your hate from your nice desk in your nice homes.

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no for Yugoslavia???

No Yugoslavia.

Now it's Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Slovenia, Macedonia, Montenegro and Kosovo.

And yes we still have troops there. (Thank you Bill Clinton)

Ben,

Having been there and can speak intelligently what do you think?

Seriously, pull out, stay put, more troops, less troops, etc.

Do you think BHO will pull out or stay?

I by no means want to seem like I'm the best to talk to on this but here's my thoughts.
Were you asking on Iraq?
BHO is going to stay for a while. He's already admitted that it would irresponsible to pull out right now. Dems can claim, hey we need to pull out. If its true we should have never gone in then how can we say that we need to pull out and just let havoc run. If we created a mess we're responsible to clean it up. Mom taught me that a long time ago. There cities were a year ago there is no way I'd be caught in unarmed where today you can run around and talk to the locals and buy stuff at their stores. These are the same people who are coming out of their houses to point out terrorists in their neighborhoods when last year they were to scared.

I say we stay for a couple more years drawing down numbers as things get better. I think its better to be stable that caotic.

Now Afghanistan? Thats been ignored to long. I had a friend Israel DelToro got burned head to toe over there as a FAC. I may have a conservative opinion but we should have taken care of this country first. Our SpecOps have way to many handcuffs. I think we are slowly changing things there but its going to be a long time. You have to change the entire agriculture over there so they don't grow poppies to something that can sustain a country and also win minds and hearts of people who have seen war everyday of their lives. Show them what they can grow, educate them IF they desire it (many don't care about education). Afghanistan is a different animal than Iraq. You snuff out the violence as much as you can and you begin to gain some major trust with them. Don't and then on top of that don't offer them alternatives they didn't have before and you go no where. We needed to surge yesterday in that country. Let our boys do their job they have been trained to do. They'll do it with flying colors!

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Originally posted by shuman14:

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no for Yugoslavia???

No Yugoslavia.

Now it's Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Slovenia, Macedonia, Montenegro and Kosovo.

And yes we still have troops there. (Thank you Bill Clinton)

yea it just kind of split up.... is that actually working there tho???