RE: http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,179078,00.html

What a load of mule muffins! The I hate Jesus people can't stand the idea that the "free exercise" portion allows for religous chaplains and that men and women in uniform might just be searching for some meaning in life beyond the here and now.

Why don't they just go off to some part of the world and leave the rest of us alone.

RE: http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,179078,00.html

GIVE ME A BREAK!!!! If they don't want to pray they don't have to!!!!

Like what? Extended periods of silence?

Wait till the Tantric Yogists show up and want to start channeling tallywhackers.

This is silly. I've never been insulted or threatened by a prayer or invocation at a military event. Lot's of CIVILIAN prayer scares the siht out of me, but that's another matter entirely.
I guess I should clarify that I'm an atheist or a deist, depending on how you look at it.

Their are very few Atheists in the Military or at least their were when I was in. Why would the DOD even consider doing away with prayer in the Military. IN GOD WE TRUST has saved many from harm and GOD has looked over these troops. So why give a bunch of atheists even a second though to their requests. This is a bunch of hog wash and should never have made headlines. If they don't want to pray they don't have to, so let them go cry to someone who cares.

No one is forced to pray; period! What these people are actually saying is they do not respect those who pray or believe in God. Therefore, no one should be allowed to pray because they don't believe in it! In the PC country we now live in, everything and everyone should have "special" rights or protections under the law. We will destroy ourselves from within. The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God...Psalms 14:1. Because you don't believe in God don't think you can change everyone's way of thinking and believing to the way you do! Freedom of Religion, not Freedom from Religion. Whether your a believer or not, your service to the country is apprecaited. Yet, our freedom doesn't give non-believers the right to restrict the freedom of others who do believe. Victimhood is alive and well in America in 2008!

quote:

"We’re as dedicated to the military as our Christian counterparts,". . .

Really? What about Jews, Muslims, or Buddhists that serve the military?

quote:

No one is forced to pray; period! What these people are actually saying is they do not respect those who pray or believe in God.

Exactly! Unless some uses Jedi Mind tricks or magical powers to make non-believers believe, then no one's freedom of belief or lack thereof is being threatened.

This is just a re-post of what I said on another thread but...

This would be a very bad idea,

The reason behind the encouragement of religion in the millitary has little to do with the millitary believing in religion... but rather in the fact that the belief in Religion of whatever kind mitigates the fear of death or removes it. This is not even something disputable, just look to the muslim enemies we face.

Long ago the millitary discovered that people who do have some kind of faith, whatever that may be are less likely to falter under fire.

Because it gives a belief that you're not really going to die and that it won't really be the end if you do.

The millitary belief or acceptance of religion is not based on some religious belief but rather on the affect it has on those you are going to send into battle.

Removing that is a very bad idea. In fact encouraging it is a much better idea and in the end. And it really does have to do with combat effectiveness.

This is also a re-post of what I said on that other thread but, like you, I believe it deserves a wider discussion.

quote:

Originally posted by 18884064:
The military belief or acceptance of religion is not based on some religious belief but rather on the affect it has on those you are going to send into battle.

I'm afraid I must disagree with you.

From my experience in the U.S. Army (27 years), the military acceptance of religion, or rather the military's implied requirement that it's soldiers subscribe to one or another variant of Christianity, is because the military encourages group-think and discourages individual thought.

In the minds of many officers and non-commissioned officers, to allow each individual member of the military to have and practice his or her faith (or lack of faith, in the case of atheists) would be the same thing as allowing each individual member of the military to decide for themselves whether they should or should not salute a commissioned officer or allowing each individual member of the military to decide for themselves which uniform they should wear at the 6:00 AM formation.

I will never forget my Senior Drill Sergeant in basic training at Fort Dix, NJ, in April 1969:
"The first thing we have to do is teach you that you aren't individuals - you're soldiers. If we want you to think, we'll tell you what to think."

quote:

Long ago the millitary discovered that people who do have some kind of faith, whatever that may be are less likely to falter under fire.

Of course, you can direct us to the source of this study that the military did to support your statement.

May God have mercy on our nation if this legislation is signed off on...ONE Nation under God!

With 27 years of service, I don't see Chaplains as a problem, but as a benefit.

First point, I am not convinced there is a problem - just anecdotals of I don't like chaplains or my career was adversly impacted - neither of which can seriously be extended to the larger group of the Army. So the inertia of having chaplains in this context says they will stay. Chaplains are for the most part used for emotional counselling for soldiers (especially combat operations)in bad places. I think given the stigma against mental health counselling, seeing the chaplain about a "dear john" letter, or many of the other sundry issues troops have to deal with while deployed all argue for keeping the chaplian capacity at the Bn level. Third, in an era where we are actively engaged in two "hot" wars, changing from a tried and true vehicle of assuring the "morale and welfare" of soldiers, merely because of some malcontents does not seem appropriate, nor likely.

Why is it that we allow less than 10% of the population tell us what is not acceptable? I fought for the right of Chaplains and if the atheists don't want a prayer "in Jesus name" let them shut their ears.

A bunch of Obama, commie, leftists trying muscle their way into the military.

Just give it time the secular progresives will win out on this. If you look around bases a posts there is not a single sign that says Merry Christmas. I worked in the daycare area of MWR for 4 years and you were not and allowed to say Merry Christmas to the parents. They wanted us to tell them happy holiday and to not call the tree or decorations we had up what they were, Christmas tree/decorations. We had to say holiday again. I told the director that as soon as they sold pine trees on the 4th of July I would call it a holiday tree.

The statement about the percentage of military people who make no religious preference is a little misleading. For 28 years my dog tags had No Rel Pref stamped on them. It only meant I belonged to no particular religious sect. As a non denominational Christian I felt it described my beliefs.

It's funny how whichever atheist is pushing this agenda acts as if the "religious" are intolerant. Yet their whole agenda is being intolerant to all the religious. I highly doubt that someone didn't get a promo because the CO asked him or her which religious affilitation they belong to. Atheists don't have these "religious" meetings because they are, in fact, atheists who don't believe a God exists (the word atheist is greek for the 'negation' of 'god'). Therefore, they don't get these meetings or groups due to the negation of what these groups or services gather about. Who forces them to gather somewhere? Just because someone prays in a forum of some sort doesn't mean that they are being persecuted for being an atheist. And noone stops then from meeting likeminded atheists. They can sit around and talk about something they beleive doesn't exist if they want, lol.

Who are these people (those that start these agendas) and where do they come from???

When I went to join, the guy refused to put Atheist on my dog tags. He put "No religious preference" instead.

I probably could have made a big fuss over it and went to his superiors, but that didn't seem like a good way to start my career in the military.

these are the kind of atheists that give us quiet and non annoying atheists a bad name. Most of my family are atheist and my brother and cousin who are in the 101st airborne are atheists. They havent had any kind of harrassment or bigotry from anybody. THey even prayed along with the other soldiers when they prayed even though they knew (believed) their was no god to keep morale up. People just need to swallow their pride and do whats best for the unit especially on deployment.

Tell the atheists to stuff it!!!!