RE: http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,169923,00.html



Gulp...I agree. That Saudi Arabia is a threat.

Although not for the same reasons.

Saudi Arabia is not a threat to the US because of their theocratic government.

It is a threat to the United States because of it's petro-dollar-based political and economic influence over elected and appointed officials in government position and near outright ownership of the 'souls' of American Big Oil Business interests.

quote:

A recent expose by New York Times reporter Philip Shenon of congressional and independent investigations of the murderous September 11, 2001 attacks describes evidence of financial, logistical and other material support by Saudi government personnel to the perpetrators of those acts of terrorism. In The Commission: The Uncensored History of the 9/11 Investigation, Shenon suggests that the Bush White House, the FBI and, not least, Saudi Ambassador Prince Bandar went to considerable lengths to suppress such evidence.

Etc, etc.

Glory be!!! Frankie sees the light!!!

The Saudi's are a problem?! - Whoda thunk it?!? Who knew it???

This president that you've supported over the past 7 years - thats who! And SO DID YOU Frank, unless you've been living under a rock!

The Bush family has been doing business with the House of Faud for now 3 generations (2 at least). And low and behold - they've been teaching mean things to thier children? As if this is news? And that they directly refused to pump more oil when Junior went to them begging "hat in hand" and those mean old Saudi's turn him down flat (now twice). Gee Frankie, did you read the editorial run by the House of Faud's family-owned newspaper (from their FREE press - "free" meaning the House of Faud can say what they want - but no one else can)? These are the Bush family's old friends. And they say, that effectively (paraphrasing here): "everthing this president has touched, whether domestic or international, has turned to dust...", and that "nothing in the Middle East will ever be resolved until he leaves office...".

And this is what his family FRIENDS say about him. After he allowed the Bin Laden family members (et al) to leave the USA immediately after 9/11 (and YOU have continued to support the guy who's policies permited it, Frankie!!).

With friends like these, who needs enemies? What ingrates, huh?

Or, could it be, that this president didn't really mean "spreading democracy in the Middle East"? He couldn't have been referring to his old friends the Saudi's could he (the place where the vast majority of the 9/11 terrorists came from)? And they are as you've now "discovered", part of the problem!?

Questions, questions, questions.

Questions, Frankie, that you should've thought about before supporting these policies (a number of which you championed) and helping to destroy the impartiality, integrity, principals, and international reputation of these United States of America and those who serve it.

Yet now you feign surprise and outrage...

Amazing.

God help you, Frank. You'll need it.

The professor did it in the study with a lead pipe...
SHEEZ...
The Saudis are no great bunch of people and soon as we and the rest of the world start talking energy independence, they start talking about releasing more oil to keep prices down and stifle energy research. Gee, they are gonna increase it by 500,000 barrels a day, if we had been drilling in ANWAR, we would be getting a million barrels a day, by some estimates, so now you tell me, who is our enemy the Saudis or our own frakking looney toons in Congress...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

Thanks to the likes of Robert Zubrin, author of the highly acclaimed Energy Victory: Winning the War on Terror by Breaking Free of Oil, Fox New's popular prime-time host Bill O'Reilly...

There you have it. Gaffer looks to non other than Bill O'Reilly for his "facts". O'Reilly is more of a lying sack and an instrument of mis-information than any Saudi ever born... which means Gaffer is either stupid, or a Flat-Worlder... or BOTH.

I vote for the latter.

quote:

Flexible Fuel Vehicles – cars that at a nominal cost can use existing technology to run on alcohol-based fuels (such as ethanol, methanol or butanol), gasoline or some combination thereof. (More information about these "Freedom Fuels" and the Open Fuel Standard that will allow them to help end the dangerous tyranny of Saudi Arabia and OPEC is at www.SetAmericaFree.org.)

Uh oh!

Look out! 'Freedom Fuels' at one o'clock.
Now which plonker is calling bio-fuels that stupid name?
Freedom fuels?
Gaffney's an eejut.

Bio fuels, (and alcohol based fuels especially) are only going to be around for a short time. I would not invest in them. Besides, they are sending the price of FOOD off the charts.

Mass Transit, Hydrogen powered and all Electric vehicular travel/vehicles are the wave of the very-near future, and I have already invested in them... heavily(well for me anyway).

Good Grief, this is news?. The Saudi's are like Mother in laws, don't want to live with them and yet can't get rid of them. They're valuable allies because of their moderate stand (like Eygpt) and have the money to help others (if you can get it from them). They produce enough oil to sway OPEC and keep Chavez from doing too many stupid things. But their workforce comes from other poorer Moslem nations, Saudi is only partially modernized. The younger generation leans heavily towards a more Moslem extremist world (like Osama). The Leaders are walking a tightrope, with no net and little control. Outside of Britain, with ally do we have that hasn't tried to screw us or failed us at once.

Hey Frankie, Fifteen of the nineteen hijacker/murderers on 9/11 were Saudi nationals. The Bin forgotten family fortune was made in Saudi Arabia.So we attack Iraq?
Its too late to start freaking out over the House of Saud, Frankie. Way too late.
Senate Report Shows Intel Debunked Al Qaeda-Iraq Link Before Bush's Speech
By Andrew Tilghman - June 16, 2008, 5:33PM

Buried deep in the new Senate intel report is evidence that yet another pre-war Bush administration claim about Iraq had been discredited within the intelligence community, months before the president used the claim publicly as an argument for war.
In October 2002, a few weeks before Congress voted to authorize the Iraq invasion, Bush told a crowd in Cincinnati: "We've learned that Iraq has trained al Qaeda members in bomb-making and poisons and deadly gasses."Problem is, it wasn't true. More importantly, a lot of people at the CIA and the Defense Intelligence Agency knew it probably wasn't true. That's one of the interesting revelations inside the Senate's recent 171-page Phase II report on whether White House statements were backed up by prewar intelligence.

Once again, it's important to make the distinction between good-faith flaws in prewar intelligence and evidence that the public was misled by a bogus case for war. (A lot of people have tried hard to make that a very hazy distinction in recent years)As Newsweek noted, the Senate report reveals that: "The intelligence reports on chemical and biological weapons training came primarily from the interrogation of al Qaeda detainee Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi."

But al-Libi had been widely discredited months before the president made that remark -- by both the CIA as well as the Defense Intelligence Agency.

From page 65 and 66 of Senate report:

A February 22, 2002 DIA Defense Intelligence Terrorism Summary noted that Ibn al-Shaykh [al-Libi] "lacks specific details on the Iraq's involvement, the [Chemical Biological Radiological and Nuclear Weapons] materials associated with the assistance and the location where the training occurred. It is possible he does not know any further details; it is more likely this individual is intentionally misleading the debriefers. Ibn al-Shaykh has been undergoing debriefs for several weeks and may be describing scenarios to debriefers that he knows will retain their interest. Saddam's regime is intensely secular and is wary of Islamic revolutionary movements. Moreover, Baghdad is unlikely to provide assistance to a group it cannot control.
DIA reiterated some of these points in additional reports. On August 7, 2002, the CIA reported on al-Libi's credibility. The Summary of the report stated that questions persist about [al-Libi's] forthrightness and truthfulness" and later elaborating "in some instances, however, he seems to have fabricated information. Perhaps in an attempt to exaggerate his own importance, Ibn al-Shaykh claims to be a member of al-AQa'ida's Shura Council, a claim not corroborated by other intelligence reporting.

(emphasis added)



Intel officials long ago stopped trying to defend al-Libi as a source. He recanted in January 2004, leading the CIA to order all prior intelligence suggesting Iraq trained al Qaeda personnel in chemical and biological warfare "recalled and re-issued" in February 2004.

But the fact the intelligence community knew al-Libi was unreliable from early to mid-2002 casts many official statements in a new light. For example, al-Libi has been reported as a primary source for Colin Powell's claim that al-Qaeda received chemical or biological weapons training from Iraq when he addressed the United Nations in early 2003. Powell did not use his name, but referred to al-Libi as a "senior Al Qaeda terrorist" who ran a training camp in Afghanistan.

(U.S. forces captured al-Libi in Afghanistan in 2001 and flew him to Egypt, where he provided the false Iraq-al-Qaeda link while undergoing harsh interrogation.)

Also, we know that Bush's speech was vetted because that was the same speech on Oct. 7, 2002, that CIA director George Tenet personally called the president about and urged him not to make mention of Iraq's alleged effort to obtain uranium from Niger because intelligence sources did not support that claim.

Saudis? Whoduthunkit? Oh, that's right. Everybody! Interesting how they "outsourced" their jihad. Interesting how Saudis in planes flying into buildings can get the U.S. to invade two other Middle East countries other than theirs. Interesting how someone figured out that a Statement of Principles written by and signed by the likes of Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Libby, J. Bush, Khalizad, Podhoretz and you, Frankie, might be interpreted as some kind of "intent" especially considering how those like-minded people ended up as Vice President, COS to the Veep, SecDef, Asst. SecDef and/or advisors to same. You don't think the Saudis played us, do you, Frankie?

"The United States is in mortal peril from a false friend: the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia".

In reality, the United States is in mortal peril from a false friend: counterfeit israel.

Take it easy on us Frankie. The United States can only fight 2 or 3 of israel's enemies at a time. Wait till our wars with Afghanistan, Iraq and Iran are over before you start sabre-rattling over Saudi Arabia.

quote:

In reality, the United States is in mortal peril from a false friend: counterfeit Israel. Take it easy on us Frankie. The United States can only fight 2 or 3 of israel's enemies at a time. Wait till our wars with Afghanistan, Iraq and Iran are over before you start sabre-rattling over Saudi Arabia.

This is George Bush's War, son. Israel had NO part in it's planning nor execution, not at the beginning, not now.

You always seem to have problems with Israel. Why is that, exactly?

For once Gaffney is at least half-way correct. The Saudis are not our friends. However, he, like so many other non-technical types, has it wrong on using alcohols as fuels. Alcohols have less fuel value per gallon than gasoline. The economics of alcohol production are terrible versus gasoline unless alcohols get heavy tax subsidies.

Saudi gov and family have been funding terrorism across the world for years... nothing new. OBL got a lot of money from that same region.
The people of Iraq could pick out a Saudi in a blinding sand storm... they hated the Wahabi and identified them as one of the biggest instigators and blamed Saudi Arabia for most of their problems.

SA is not beneficial to us, they like our money and hate our people.

quote:
SA is not beneficial to us, they like our money and hate our people. quote:

and we are so fking stupid we set them up so they could screw us!

quote:

Originally posted by EAG154:
quote:
SA is not beneficial to us, they like our money and hate our people. quote:

and we are so fking stupid we set them up so they could screw us!

Pogo said it best long long ago "We have met the enemy and they are Us"

Sad to say but we are getting just what we asked for.. We let our elected officials feed us cake, give us fun games to watch, and give us a little war now and again for the uncaring to watch on TV. We're looking and sounding more and more like Rome before the fall. I pity my children, grand children and now great grand children..

It is called duplicity. The oil the radicalism are just a part of the over all stratagy. In truth they hate us, but they know hey can not win by direct confrontation.

The groundwork for this duplicity was laid years ago . It is simple in design. Dangle something out there that the world needs and can not do without while at the same time teaching that we are evil and should all be killed and or converted, and of course disavowing that at all levels.

They disavow this and we believe it because we are all being told it is the radicals and just a small few who are responsible. We know they are our friends because they sell us oil and buy our weapons.

Think of it as a multi demensional Chess match. Each move while seemingly unrelated is still moving to the ultimate outcome, checkmate. In this case fighting to a draw is not a solution.

The radicals have a driving force and it is much more than Bin Laden. We need to get our heads our of the sand before we have no heads or worse.

quote:

Originally posted by Weatherguesser:

quote:

In reality, the United States is in mortal peril from a false friend: counterfeit Israel. Take it easy on us Frankie. The United States can only fight 2 or 3 of israel's enemies at a time. Wait till our wars with Afghanistan, Iraq and Iran are over before you start sabre-rattling over Saudi Arabia.

This is George Bush's War, son. Israel had NO part in it's planning nor execution, not at the beginning, not now.

You always seem to have problems with Israel. Why is that, exactly?

I consider the war to be israel's. At least israel is the prime instigator and benefactor. George is simply israel's front man, playing out the role assigned to him by the puppet-masters. I have several problems with so-called israel, mainly that "Israel" is a misnomer. I prefer to call it Occupied Palestine, a land occupied not by Jews, but by decendents of the Khazar Empire, a people who converted to Judaism, but who have no biological link to Biblical Israel. Those evangelical so-called Christians, who fawn over israel because of what I consider to be a false interpretation of Biblical eschatology, are just as guilty as are the Khazars in the commission of genocide against the Palestinians. I suggest reading Arthur Koestler's "The Thirteenth Tribe" for a bit of enlightenment.

The Saudis are practicing classic taqqiya, that is, lying to advance Islam. Islam considers itself at war with dar al-Harb, the non-Muslim world, and under Sharia it's considered part of war to lie to non-Muslims to advance Islam. After all in the Koran, the Sunafi and Hadiths, you can find references to "war is deceit."

I've had business dealings with Muslims... never again.

The Saudi's are spending billions in support of jihad. Our oil dollars at work.Islam requires it's denizons of evil to make a trip to Mecca. No Mecca? Problem solved. Anybody who upsets poor lost wether guess or is a patriot in my book. Oreilly@foxnews.com
Stop Jihad

The Jews are God's chosen people for those of us the secular world views as primitive. Israel must be doing something right. The entire muslim world longs for their destruction. I love those kind of people. God's chosen people against Islam. Wonder who the muslims pray to?