RE: http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,165877,00.html

we do have access to higher education. it's called Tuition Assistance. The Army and Corps both have it as well. The Air Force has AFCC. The GI Bill is for after you get out. If you haven't made use of your in-service educational bennies, you have no one to blame but yourself when MGIB won't cover the whole thing afterwards. I make that point to all my recruits. MGIB is for picking up additional certifications or credentials, and lab courses and such, after you get out.

MM1(SW), USN Active-Duty Recruiter

Not a bribe if you "volunteer".

I think that a good deal of people join knowing that there will be benefits and if not, then your job is to fill in the dotted line.

For some it's the only way they would have opportunity to higher education without sinking a family in the hole with loans.

I believe the author was a bit simplistic in his analysis.

First, the original GI Bill was not just to provide returning GIs with education. First and foremost, it was to stall their entry into the labor force. The war was over, and the hundreds of thousands in the war industry were now out of work. The transition to peace time manufacturing was not that simple and fast. Push enough into college (for which they were adequately compensated) and they would be content and not vying for employment.

The other bills did not really pay enough to go full time to school without working. This was exasperated as the years went by.

The "carrot" to keep someone in the military was not the GI Bill. That was sort of the icing. Increased pay, better housing, facilities, equipment and training were more valuable.

Someone here (I believe linedoggie) lamented in one post that it was almost impossible to take education courses while on duty due to the increased op tempo. To obtain a degree while on active duty may or may not be a goal of the individual, or a requirement of the service. An opportunity to gain a degree after leaving the service allows an individual to:
1. Mature
2. Actually investigate which degree would be best for the individual, not the service.
3. Allow for some decompression after serving.

I would think that anyone on active duty would be insulted if anyone declared that an opportunity for advanced education, either while on active duty or after leaving the service, was a bribe.

No, not a bribe! Just one facet of a compensation package for participating in military service!~!

Have a good day!~!

Why is this even being debated? Warriors who serve the USA have shown their COURAGE. Why does the USA not enable them to continue serving the USA by enriching their minds through education and training benefits promised to them by a grateful nation. Our veterans have earned their right to be a citizen. Why does congress continue to deny our veterans the tools they need to be the best citizens they can be?
SEMPER FI AND GOD BLESS AMERICA

It's probably a little of both, but it is seldom within the grasp of frontline troops. Before I retired (at XVIII ABC HQ), my clerk/Admin specialist SSG was working on his Masters using tution assistance and planned on getting out and getting his PHD onthe GI Bill. My assistant OPS NCO and I had spent all our careers as 11B Airborne, Rangers, etc- maxed out on every military school to go to, but due to conflicts, training & deployments we had little to no time to go to civilian schools (when your gone 279 days out of 360 training, you have no time) Then the first 2-3 years you striving to fit into the civilian world which makes it also hard to go to school- you have to feed the family and retirement doesn't do that!. I understand that now with on-line schooling it maybe better, but it's still a tough road.

On-line classes require about 2 hours per assignment, sometimes more depending on the depth of the assignment. Time-lines are always fun!

Right now I'm taking two classes on-line: government and business. One class allows exams online, the other has to be proctored, in my case; at a local community college.

Lovatscot stated correctly, it's better but still tough. If you have a family, sacrifices are made. Time is valuable.

quote:

Originally posted by geehaw:
Why is this even being debated? Warriors who serve the USA have shown their COURAGE. Why does the USA not enable them to continue serving the USA by enriching their minds through education and training benefits promised to them by a grateful nation. Our veterans have earned their right to be a citizen. Why does congress continue to deny our veterans the tools they need to be the best citizens they can be?
SEMPER FI AND GOD BLESS AMERICA

You should ask those questions to your elected officials. They see their job as saving as much as possible (or so they say) of your tax dollars. Why are they seeking to boost TRICARE enrollment cost to three times the current cost? Why boost the cost of prescription medication? How about asking VA users to increase the co-pay? Why bump up everything, and cut everything? Only your representative know!~!

Have a good day!~!

Depends on how you look at it and why you join the military in the first place. Dah.

The Administration's opposition is REALLY about creating a climate that will cause people to decide to stay in the service because there is not enough opportunity for them to get an education and put their civilian lives back together after serving. It's cynical and wrong. People who've been serving in this conflict, especially those who are serving multiple deployments, do not have the time or opportunity to advance their educations while serving. They end up being 23 years old, possibly with a spouse and/or child, and no non-military profession, while their high school classmates who went to college and obtained their diplomas are already embarked on their careers. The Administration would rather bribe people with huge signing bonuses in order to foster retention, but most of those people do not plan on careers in the military. They deserve something better than this.

I never considered it a bribe.
I earned two associate degrees using the GI Bill.

But how would this be different from being hired at a corporation. Corporations have bonuses and way to retain their people as well

That's gotta go down as one of the most assinine questions ever.. or would be were it not really just another backhanded way of calling our troops mercenaries.. I made it thru a 6 year BBA on the GI Bill, 2 part time jobs and 10 grand in loans (long since retired)..if someone would've told me I was 'bribed' I'd 've prob'ly punched 'im....

No, not a bribe to me. The promise of education tuition money via the G.I. Bill, never influenced me, changed my conduct, altered my judgement, or induced me to be or do anything that I would not have otherwise done before, during, or after my military service.

Clarification here - what I was trying to say is that the Administration thinks it's best to get people to commit by frontloading their reenlistments with bonuses, enticements, whatever, in order to foster retention, but is refusing to sign on to the GI Bill reforms due to concerns that those serving will want to move on with their lives and will be less likely to accept the bonuses as basis for reenlistment. Heck, that's how they've been putting the issue. They've made it clear their opposition is about retention.

godawgz, you are completely misreading my post. I absolutely do not intend to call anyone a mercenary and think you're stretching it pretty far to draw that conclusion. You and I are of a certain age, and the fact is that it's a lot harder to get the college education these days than it was 20 or 30 years ago. The tuition costs and other costs have spiraled out of the reach of a couple of modest little loans and maybe a side job. I put myself through college -five years for two degrees - and never took a dime in loans until I hit law school. My loans were limited there as I always had jobs. But I could not dream of doing the same these days. Even with the jobs I'd be unable to pay my way and would require some sort of financial assistance. I've seen a lot of complaints from returning military that the current program is simply not enough, and a lot of them are having to delay, defer, or simply abandon their dreams of an education. They deserve better than that.

Let's not forget another aspect of education+military service+ what do I do when I get out? If you enlist into technical fields in the military, there are many companies out there willing to take your training and 4 or 5 years in lieu of formal education. For many service members, military service is their way of getting an education.

Obviously not every MOS translates into a well paying job in the civilian world, just like not every college degree guarantees you will get a job. It never really sits well with me when people claim "young people enlist because they would have no other access to education" because they completely dismiss the benefits of it. Is it true for some, military service is their only viable option, sure, but is it so wide spread as some would have us believe? No, it isn't.

quote:

Both Democratic presidential candidates — Sens. Barack Obama, D-Ill., and Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., — have signed on as co-sponsors, and the bill has gained bipartisan support from 54 senators on Capitol Hill in addition to Webb. A vote on the proposal is expected before the summer.

But the bill, which would dramatically increase educational compensation for American troops, has run into some unexpected resistance, both at the Pentagon and now from McCain, who has remained silent on the issue, saying he had not studied the bill close enough.

Pressure had mounted on McCain to support the bill — a veterans group, which backs the legislation, delivered a petition to McCain's Senate office, signed by 30,000 veterans.

Officials in charge of Pentagon personnel worry that a more generous and expansive GI Bill would create an incentive for troops to get out of the military and go to college.

And while that might be great for the individual troop, it could be bad for the military, which is already under stress after more than five years fighting two wars.

On his campaign plane this afternoon, McCain said he and allies in the Senate are working on an alternative to the bill, but would only support something that included incentives to stay in the military.

"We are working on proposals of our own — I'm a consistent supporter of educational benefits for the men and women of the military," McCain said. "I want to make sure that we have incentives for people to remain in the military as well as for people to join the military. ... I've talked a lot about veterans' health care, so we'll continue to talk about those issues and how to care for vets. I know I can do that, having been one."

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Story?id=4652517&page=1

Senator McCain, you have had sixteen months to come up with "alternate proposals" and have yet to fit getting one out into your busy schedule. You have, on the other hand, made your support of increased benefits part of your stump speech, in the same way you have made benefits for disabled veterans a major issue ... although you only manage a "D" from Disabled American Veteran's on health issues. Say whatever you like ... just make sure it is closer to the facts than it is now.

quote:

Senator McCain, you have had sixteen months to come up with "alternate proposals" and have yet to fit getting one out into your busy schedule. You have, on the other hand, made your support of increased benefits part of your stump speech, in the same way you have made benefits for disabled veterans a major issue ... although you only manage a "D" from Disabled American Veteran's on health issues. Say whatever you like ... just make sure it is closer to the facts than it is now. Cool

Which is why he is going to have one hell of a time getting the majority of the Veteran vote.

McCain is a gift to the Democrats on this and so many other issues ... He's the gift that just keeps on giving.

I just want the Government to get off their collective laurels and start improving the benefits for veterans...Have been listening to this bs for decades and seeing no results from any administration...

MarineAuntie- Most don't join to get money for an "education". They get a much better "education" just wearing the uniform than they will ever get in any American university. "Education" is all in the eyes of the beholder. Yep, it helps to have that piece of paper but that's all it is, a piece of paper. If sucess is based on how much money you make than America has lost it's way. But your views are slanted in all your posts and you never wore the uniform so you can not relate like you think you can. Many who come in for the college money, decide to stay because it is a unique way of like. Military life isa unique experience that very few get to live. I miss it but mostly the relationships with people from all over this country and many parts of the world from all backgrounds, who all, ultimetly have one thing in common; they are wearing the uniform to serve, not to be served. Something most of our lawmakers no nothing about.

quote:

Originally posted by MarineAuntie:
Clarification here - what I was trying to say is that the Administration thinks it's best to get people to commit by frontloading their reenlistments with bonuses, enticements, whatever, in order to foster retention, but is refusing to sign on to the GI Bill reforms due to concerns that those serving will want to move on with their lives and will be less likely to accept the bonuses as basis for reenlistment. Heck, that's how they've been putting the issue. They've made it clear their opposition is about retention.

godawgz, you are completely misreading my post. I absolutely do not intend to call anyone a mercenary and think you're stretching it pretty far to draw that conclusion. You and I are of a certain age, and the fact is that it's a lot harder to get the college education these days than it was 20 or 30 years ago. The tuition costs and other costs have spiraled out of the reach of a couple of modest little loans and maybe a side job. I put myself through college -five years for two degrees - and never took a dime in loans until I hit law school. My loans were limited there as I always had jobs. But I could not dream of doing the same these days. Even with the jobs I'd be unable to pay my way and would require some sort of financial assistance. I've seen a lot of complaints from returning military that the current program is simply not enough, and a lot of them are having to delay, defer, or simply abandon their dreams of an education. They deserve better than that.

I was referring to the title of the article, not your post.. However, I will say that what was most valuable to me was not the $300 (EVENTUALLY $350/month) for 36 months that I got in the GI Bill, it was the ability to do 6 years in 36 months while holding down two part time jobs.. before the Army, I wouldn't have even attempted such a thing....And I sure as hell wouldn't have gotten the idea from my straight outta High School classmates....

Dear Carissa,

Sorry to put you on blast, but I don't have your email addy and I am far too busy to search for it. I think it's despicable that you tried to sabotage our memorial event and you put that horse **** out to everyone on Cindy's list. We invited you personally and have no interest in your on-the-fence organization. Yeah, sure we need cheerleaders, but what does your organization do? Out of your hundreds of boasted members how many actually contribute? How many really want to compete with you? Sorry to drop to your level and make this public, but I feel it is my responsibility to "keep you real" so here it is:

It's not about the name in the news. It's not about the name on the bottom of the fliers. It's not about the name on the checks.

It's about the names on that memorial on Cooper Field. It's about the names in the Stars and Stripes. It's about the names on the little steel bracelets that some people will never take off.

I don't expect you to feel any shame for what you've done, but now you know how I feel and I'm certain that I speak for everyone in IVAW Hood when I say that you disappointed us all.