RE: http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,163553,00.html

I have an idea. They should take the fat kids they are now rejecting. They should set up a 10 week long weight reduction plan. (something similar to BCT, but without the weapons training) then assess the recruits to see if the meet the standards. If they do send them to BCT if not send them home.

They want to expand the military during a time of war. They need to be taking all serious enlistees seriously. That is the only way I see it working.

I am prior service, and even when I went in the first time, I had to be "taped in". The reason they have to turn away most of the obese people is because the way they do their body fat analysis. It is an inaccurate test at best. I will agree that I am overweight, but obese? i think not. I weigh 265 lbs, but I have never been told I look fat. To go by the standard, I have to weigh around 190 lbs. I havent seen the backside of 190 since I was in the 8th grade. They need to change their testing method, thats the only way to get what other people call "Fat Kids" in. not all of are created equal.

quote:

Originally posted by WastingAway:
I am prior service, and even when I went in the first time, I had to be "taped in". The reason they have to turn away most of the obese people is because the way they do their body fat analysis. It is an inaccurate test at best. I will agree that I am overweight, but obese? i think not. I weigh 265 lbs, but I have never been told I look fat. To go by the standard, I have to weigh around 190 lbs. I havent seen the backside of 190 since I was in the 8th grade. They need to change their testing method, thats the only way to get what other people call "Fat Kids" in. not all of are created equal.

Dude, you're fat!

According to my hydrostatic test, which is the most accurate test to determine bodyfat, I am sitting right around 25% compared to the tape test which puts me at 32% thats a big difference. The tape test is simple innacurate.

If one can run two miles in 13 minutes, do 80 sit-ups in 113 seconds, do 13 pull-ups with a 35lb. get up and go bag on his back, 40 push-ups, ruck 12 miles in less than 3 hours with 55 pounds on his back, swim 2 miles in 2 hours in open water, fire expert with a pistol, and riffle, and most of all display common sense, than I don't care if he is 5'10" and weighs 450 pounds.

And just yesterday we were talking about the Webb GI Bill, worrying about retention..... Hard to retain when if no one gets in! The Draft worked from start to Viet Nam. before you ask,yes I would go into combat with draftees again. They may have complained, but they did as great a job as anyone.

Also, the armed forces need to go back to the "Combat Proficiency physical test" and get rid of the "Copper" test.

quote:

Originally posted by TxEzRider:
Also, the armed forces need to go back to the "Combat Proficiency physical test" and get rid of the "Copper" test.

(hit the send too quickly! It's the "Cooper test from the 60's and was a real bad mistake.

I saw on a tv program that Blackwater was at an all time high for
people joining. You think some folks are opting for the bigger pay
checks. That is something to think about, as now everyone wants that
more money up front. The sort of me first attitude.

Almost all the employeees at Blackwater are seasoned veterans. DOD is not losing recruits to blackwater. DOD is just seeing the reflection of the younger (Me)generation and that less young people are willing to serve their nation because they rather serve themsleves.

quote:

Originally posted by Duster6:
If one can run two miles in 13 minutes, do 80 sit-ups in 113 seconds, do 13 pull-ups with a 35lb. get up and go bag on his back, 40 push-ups, ruck 12 miles in less than 3 hours with 55 pounds on his back, swim 2 miles in 2 hours in open water, fire expert with a pistol, and riffle, and most of all display common sense, than I don't care if he is 5'10" and weighs 450 pounds.

EXACTLY!! I used to get taped at every weigh-in because I was 190lbs, and not 184lbs. they didn't care about my 300+ PT score, or the fact that I could bench 350lbs, almost TWICE my body weight! Not to mention that we took the XVIII Airborne Corps PT Test with the ruck march 30 minutes after taking the PT test. Rucked 20k in a little over 2hrs and 20 minutes...Or should I say RAN the damn thing.

I believe you all have very valid points. I feel that any type of testing to measure who is overweight is an outdated system that needs to be abolished. Muscle mass and bone density is not even considered in their formulas.

Secondly, I feel that this problem has to do more with society's perception on the military rather than fat kids not making the weight. Due to this war, people are afraid to join with the fear of going to Iraq for 15 months. Divorce rates among soldiers are high. Suicide rate is steady climbing. These factors are becoming news worthing stories but it has put fear into the mindset of people who would have joined the military.

Then lets look where our society has gone. Celebrities are getting into trouble. Lack of respect for one another. Mental problems among our youth. We need to bring it back together before we can get those qualified people among the rank and file.

Myself, I'm joining the National Guards. We need to boast up our homeland defense. I want to be apart of that. Here I am at the age of 38 wanting to do this and we can't even get our youth to go. their mindset is on video games and technology where they can make more than going into the armed forces.

There are some of us who believe that there is some honor in being in the military. I'm one of them.

quote:

Originally posted by Jfile:
I have an idea. They should take the fat kids they are now rejecting. They should set up a 10 week long weight reduction plan. (something similar to BCT, but without the weapons training) then assess the recruits to see if the meet the standards. If they do send them to BCT if not send them home.
They want to expand the military during a time of war. They need to be taking all serious enlistees seriously. That is the only way I see it working.

There has been much written on this subject at Military.com. The military needs to, as suggested by a poster here, take seriously ALL prior military vets and others who have minor (waiverable) items to deal with that DOD branches have been playing picky with for years.

quote:

Originally posted by Duster6:
If one can run two miles in 13 minutes, do 80 sit-ups in 113 seconds, do 13 pull-ups with a 35lb. get up and go bag on his back, 40 push-ups, ruck 12 miles in less than 3 hours with 55 pounds on his back, swim 2 miles in 2 hours in open water, fire expert with a pistol, and riffle, and most of all display common sense, than I don't care if he is 5'10" and weighs 450 pounds.

Odd Thread topic/content. I was watching the "Pentagon Channel" this week and they said that all branches of the Armed Forces had met or exceeded the recruitment goals. USMC was slightly over 100%. Exception was the Army Reserve and (?) maybe the Army Guard..which I think was about 97%-? . Someone/group/news outlet seems to be not telling the "Rest-of-the-story".

quote:

Originally posted by WastingAway:
I am prior service, and even when I went in the first time, I had to be "taped in". The reason they have to turn away most of the obese people is because the way they do their body fat analysis. It is an inaccurate test at best. I will agree that I am overweight, but obese? i think not. I weigh 265 lbs, but I have never been told I look fat. To go by the standard, I have to weigh around 190 lbs. I havent seen the backside of 190 since I was in the 8th grade. They need to change their testing method, thats the only way to get what other people call "Fat Kids" in. not all of are created equal.

Posting as a regular poster here....

Time for some tough comments on this subject.

I have not seen my current body weight since 15-17 years ago. I will weigh less then I did at ETS'd from the Army in another 3-4 more months.

You should be able to lose 10 lbs a month minimum safely. It's really not very difficult to lose weight and keep it off. All it requires is self control. If you can't manage your weight then what kind of example are you setting for someone you will potentially lead (civilian or military).

I have real problems understanding why others can't lose weight at that rate if I can do it in my early 40's over a sustained period of time. I read on this website how it is harder to keep weight off once your in your 40's. I've yet to see that.

I disagree with Duster on this as well (which is rare). If you talk to a civilian doctor and they say you should weigh this much and you don't......then you have a problem period, your also causing a problem for the rest of us.

Your costing us and our Medical system some serious money for medical treatment of ancillary issues directly related to you being obeese. When your excess body weight flows over in coach on a passenger jet, your stealing space you did not pay for from other passengers on the same plane.

So, IMO, the Armed Forces is right to be rigid in this area (I hope that continues). I hope private or public Health Care system penalizes overweight people as well. The private Health Care system is starting to change in that area. I also think airlines should start to surcharge by body weight in excess of a certain amount.

I have a hard time believing this height and weight level is OK with a civilian doctor. If it is not, then you will be responsible for increasing my own medical premiums to offset your future medical treatment. Thats how the medical system works.

Being obeese is NOT victimless.

Thats my two cents, as harsh as it sounds.

I agree with you totally eric. I myself changed things for myself last year. From july 21st to september 21st I lost a total of 33 lbs, went from 279 to 246. And that was just starting a workout regimen 6 days a week and watching very closely what I ate, I counted every calorie that went passed my lips. I felt good, I was starting to look better, but things changed. A little side note, I believe that the Military should remain strict on the weight issue as you are only as strong as the weakest soldier in your squad, but the methods the military uses are at best inaccurate. As I stated before, my hydrostatic test showed that I was sittin at like 25% BF, the tape test puts me at like 33% BF. Why such a big difference? I realize that the military doesnt have the money to pay for a hydrostatic test, theyre expensive, but at least let me use the one that I have already done. I payed for it. As for my weight, well Im back up to like 265 LBS, life just grabbed me by the N*** and threw me off balance, but I will prevail, and I will get back into the uniform.

quote:

Originally posted by WastingAway:
I agree with you totally eric. I myself changed things for myself last year. From july 21st to september 21st I lost a total of 33 lbs, went from 279 to 246. And that was just starting a workout regimen 6 days a week and watching very closely what I ate, I counted every calorie that went passed my lips. I felt good, I was starting to look better, but things changed. A little side note, I believe that the Military should remain strict on the weight issue as you are only as strong as the weakest soldier in your squad, but the methods the military uses are at best inaccurate. As I stated before, my hydrostatic test showed that I was sittin at like 25% BF, the tape test puts me at like 33% BF. Why such a big difference? I realize that the military doesnt have the money to pay for a hydrostatic test, theyre expensive, but at least let me use the one that I have already done. I payed for it. As for my weight, well Im back up to like 265 LBS, life just grabbed me by the N*** and threw me off balance, but I will prevail, and I will get back into the uniform.

What does your Civilian Doctor say your weight should be? If your personal doctor says that the Army weight charts are too light for you then I will agree with you on the Army's standards of measurement. In my experience with my Doctor, he says the prior service charts are actually on the heavy side by 4-7 lbs for each height/age gradient.

On the part of losing weight and hope this helps you....

What most people have trouble with and what I read in the Army Forums all the time is some guy is both trying to get up to speed for the APFT as well as losing weight at the same time.

Thats very, very difficult to do in the will power area. Because your doing a replacement muscle for fat and for several weeks your weight will hold steady or actually you will gain because new muscle weighs more than fat. It's very difficult to balance with that approach.

I concentrate on cardio. I go into the Gym with my hunger satiated and leave starving for my next meal. If the same is not happening to you then your not doing enough cardio or burning enough calories in your workout. I burn 750-800 calories per visit to the Gym in about an hour and a half (I use the calorie counters on the equipment and only go every other day). Most of the workout is cardio because the APFT is not important to me (not in the Army).

I have two main meals a day, breakfest and lunch. I won't eat lunch until I am hungry, sometimes takes until 2 p.m.). If I am really hungry for dinner (no later then 7 p.m.) it will be something very light (60 cal Progresso Veggie Soup). Go to the Gym at 10:30 or 11:00 p.m., when the crowd is thinning out there.

Have a low-cal protien bar after Gym, go to bed and wake up 2 lbs lighter, I take the next day off (thats optional of course for running but I see no need to run every day). I gain some of that weight loss back for the day back but not all of it and over the course of a week I drop 2-3 lbs.

I don't take any diet suppliments (other then the protein bar), nor do I starve myself during the day. Just eat a regularly portioned breakfest and lunch and a very light dinner (only if I am hungry for it). If I go out to a restraunt to lunch, I don't usually clean the plate because they always serve too much in portions.

So thats all I do and it works fine for me. Might not work for you because everyone is different. You have to experiment over time. It took me 4-6 months to figure out what works for me.

BTW, if you are going into the Army, given your weight make sure you ramp up your physical exercise beyond the Gym workouts. Probably a second run at night or in the morning for a shorter distance would not hurt.

Also, increase your calcium intake (ask your doctor he knows best, I don't). You don't want to get stress fractures because switching from a sedentary lifestyle to a military lifestyle without a adequate break-in period for your body will get you stress fractures and probably a medical discharge. Lookup "stress fracture" on the mayo clinic site or Google......just be careful there with ramping up to the activity level. I keep reading about people that led a sedentary lifestyle for 10 or more years, jump into the Army and then get stress fractures.

quote:

Originally posted by Jfile:
I have an idea. They should take the fat kids they are now rejecting. They should set up a 10 week long weight reduction plan. (something similar to BCT, but without the weapons training) then assess the recruits to see if the meet the standards. If they do send them to BCT if not send them home.

They want to expand the military during a time of war. They need to be taking all serious enlistees seriously. That is the only way I see it working.

Beleve or not back in the day when I join back in the 80's Ft.Leonerdwood had a fatboy program a company we called Foxtrot made just for fat kids that couldent pass basic. After four weeks of training after they proved they where ready they where put into basic, dose that still go on or did they do away with it???