RE: http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,161449,00.html

They have been talking about it for 40 years; so there doesn't seem to be a rush to address it. So it will probably go another 40 being talked about.

1) I don't know of any statue of limitations on prosecuting a crime that results in anyone's death.
2) Don't show this to your fellow op-ed writer and pro-Israel fanatic Frank Gaffney unless you want to throw him into into a grand mal seizure.
3) You know you have to fight for news attention with Britney Spears? or who's going to win American Idol? Good luck.
4) The escalation in Viet Nam masked a lot of ugly things at home and abroad including this, it seems. We need to be reminded of these things. Thanks.
5) If you want to get a feel of what it's like to openly challenge prevailing sentiments about Israel, look up the story behind Norman Finkelstein. To Israel's credit, it has it's defenders. But neither Israel nor any nation is above criticism or strong disagreement.

quote:

Originally posted by otisotis:
RE: http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,161449,00.html

This just one of Americas shameful cover ups. They will wait till all involved are dead. The captain recieved A MOH in a private ceremony, The crew Got thier decorations in a private Navy Yard ceremony. Fighters from a nearby carrier were on the way to ward off the attack and were recalled by the defense sect. due to the ordinance they carried. Re armed and launched a second time, the President got on the horn this time and ordered the planes
re called. I dont believe it was any mistake it was a pretext to war as all other wars have been. Its time to realize that Military personal are carefully calculated expendable assets. To ensure support of the many wars we have been involved in since the sinking of the lucentania and WW-1

quote:

Originally posted by john2x:

quote:

Originally posted by otisotis:
RE: http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,161449,00.html

This just one of Americas shameful cover ups. They will wait till all involved are dead. The captain recieved A MOH in a private ceremony, The crew Got thier decorations in a private Navy Yard ceremony. Fighters from a nearby carrier were on the way to ward off the attack and were recalled by the defense sect. due to the ordinance they carried. Re armed and launched a second time, the President got on the horn this time and ordered the planes
re called. I dont believe it was any mistake it was a pretext to war as all other wars have been. Its time to realize that Military personal are carefully calculated expendable assets. To ensure support of the many wars we have been involved in since the sinking of the lucentania and WW-1

John, this is about as much as the problem will ever be addressed or speculated about. Was it a tragic incident? Absolutely! Are there conspiracy theorists on this? Absolutely! Are there things still questioned by conspiracy theorists about the Imperial Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor? Absolutely! Will all the speculation about Pearl Harbor ever be fully answered in the minds of the conspiracy theorists? Nope! Same with the U.S.S. Liberty?
Yup! This is one of those things that will be questioned, speculated about, for as long as there will be people that can read about it...
Will it ever be answered to everyone's satisfaction? Nope! And there's the pity of the situation...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

Accident.

No more questions. Not Now.

quote:

Originally posted by popsiq:
Accident.

No more questions. Not Now.

Well Popsickle, I will weaken this one time and I will probably regret it. So what do you know and what do you think was the reason for it?
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

Did some Googling and found some good infro about the inicident.. A major cover-up job from the higest levels.... some of the surriving crew tried to get the media attention interviews were plan even a book was in the work.. But backstabbing "Allies" curtailed the progress. using name-calling tatics etc. go figure???

People who don't want to discuss the facts find refuge in using the pejorative term "conspiracy theorists" to describe those who disagree with them. The facts undermining the original, hasty conclusion of the court of inquiry are overwhelming. The court of inquiry submitted its findings less than ten days after the attack took place. It was the shortest court of inquiry involving loss of life in Navy history - by several orders of magnitude.

The people most closely involved in the court of inquiry - the court's own legal counsel, Adm. McCain's legal counsel, and the witnesses who were either not allowed to testify or who had their testimony stricken from the official record - all agree that the government was in full cover up mode. If believing that those who were closest to the investigation, and who have enumerated specific, documented gross irregularities in the investigation, makes one a conspiracy theorist, then there is no hope for reasoned intellectual discourse.

More than anything else, what I want to know is why are the pro-Israeli people so passionate in their defense of a foreign nation that by its own admission killed 34 Americans and wounded 174 more? If there is credible evidence that the original investigation was grossly flawed, what harm is there in conducting a through investigation? The only plausible answer is that they know that a genuine investigation would show that Israel deliberately attacked and killed Americans and they will do anything to prevent that from happening. If that is their position, they are entitled to it, but they shouldn't call themselves Americans.

Migbuster
Posted Tue 05 February 2008 08:18 PM
Did some Googling and found some good infro about the inicident.. A major cover-up job from the higest levels.... some of the surriving crew tried to get the media attention interviews were plan even a book was in the work.. But backstabbing "Allies" curtailed the progress. using namecalling taticsetc. go figure???


The israli's fu**** it up by failing to sink the ship. One Israli pilot refused to attack when he identified it as American. He aborted and went back. I believe he was punished.

Topic: Liberty Incident Demands Answers
RogerKint
Posted Tue 05 February 2008 08:44 PM
People who don't want to discuss the facts find refuge in using the pejorative term "conspiracy theorists" to describe those who disagree with them. The facts undermining the original, hasty conclusion of the court of inquiry are overwhelming. The court of inquiry submitted its findings less than ten days after the attack took place. It was the shortest court of inquiry involving loss of life in Navy history - by several orders of magnitude.



The people most closely involved in the court of inquiry - the court's own legal counsel, Adm. McCain's legal counsel, and the witnesses who were either not allowed to testify or who had their testimony stricken from the official record - all agree that the government was in full cover up mode. If believing that those who were closest to the investigation, and who have enumerated specific, documented gross irregularities in the investigation, makes one a conspiracy theorist, then there is no hope for reasoned intellectual discourse.

More than anything else, what I want to know is why are the pro-Israeli people so passionate in their defense of a foreign nation that by its own admission killed 34 Americans and wounded 174 more? If there is credible evidence that the original investigation was grossly flawed, what harm is there in conducting a through investigation? The only plausible answer is that they know that a genuine investigation would show that Israel deliberately attacked and killed Americans and they will do anything to prevent that from happening. If that is their position, they are entitled to it, but they shouldn't call themselves Americans.


What bothers me most is that vets are supposed to support vets so how was this sold to those vets that claim conspiracy theorists.

These Sailors were there one of them a MOH reciepient and have been fighting for justice and a hearing for over forty years. So where should your support be with Politicians? If it could happen to them it could happen to you.

So all this Brotherhood is great untill you have to stand up and be counted. Thats why our vets can be used as expendable property.

Prove it to yourself write a letter to your congressman Ask him why the Liberty vets are being denied thier congressional hearing after more than 40 years.

You will get the same answers I got when questioning the Atomic vets handling and non recognition. A deafening silence. Same as the agent Orange vets. If they can do it to them what makes you think your immune?

One question, please ... if the Liberty attack was intentional, what was the motive?

quote:

Originally posted by SUNLINER81:

quote:

Originally posted by john2x:

quote:

Originally posted by otisotis:
RE: http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,161449,00.html

This just one of Americas shameful cover ups. They will wait till all involved are dead. The captain recieved A MOH in a private ceremony, The crew Got thier decorations in a private Navy Yard ceremony. Fighters from a nearby carrier were on the way to ward off the attack and were recalled by the defense sect. due to the ordinance they carried. Re armed and launched a second time, the President got on the horn this time and ordered the planes
re called. I dont believe it was any mistake it was a pretext to war as all other wars have been. Its time to realize that Military personal are carefully calculated expendable assets. To ensure support of the many wars we have been involved in since the sinking of the lucentania and WW-1

John, this is about as much as the problem will ever be addressed or speculated about. Was it a tragic incident? Absolutely! Are there conspiracy theorists on this? Absolutely! Are there things still questioned by conspiracy theorists about the Imperial Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor? Absolutely! Will all the speculation about Pearl Harbor ever be fully answered in the minds of the conspiracy theorists? Nope! Same with the U.S.S. Liberty?
Yup! This is one of those things that will be questioned, speculated about, for as long as there will be people that can read about it...
Will it ever be answered to everyone's satisfaction? Nope! And there's the pity of the situation...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

We never get to know, maybe thats how it was meant to be from the beginning of time. Heres another long forgotten incident which includes UFO tech. and Einsteins theories around 1943.The Uss Eldrige and the project Rainbow Philadelphia Experiment.

http://www.spiritual-endeavors.org/abilities/phila.htm

Arielski
Posted Tue 05 February 2008 09:46 PM
One question, please ... if the Liberty attack was intentional, what was the motive?


IMO Possibly if they had sunk the liberty we could claim It was Syria and an act of war against the US. We did have Nuclear armed planes that were recalled and carriers near by. I believe it has always been the goal to control the mid east and keep Israel safe and the power base. Effectively we would be doing what where doing now only sooner. But who knows the real motive this is only my opinion and speculation. The only fact is that Israli jets and torpedo boats attacked the liberty and gunned the sailors as they were abandoning ship in life boats.

quote:

john2x - The only fact is that Israli jets and torpedo boats attacked the liberty and gunned the sailors as they were abandoning ship in life boats.

Wha??? They saved the ship, and nobody ordered it to be abandoned, nor did the crew TRY to abandon it. In fact they sailed it to a port for repairs, then back to U.S. Shores where it was eventually de-commissioned and scrapped, and many of the crew received medals for valor, including one MOH..

Do you suppose you could post links to official and specific data concerning this sort of accusation, next time around?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Weatherguesser,

quote:

Originally posted by SUNLINER81:

quote:

Originally posted by popsiq:
Accident.

No more questions. Not Now.

Well Popsickle, I will weaken this one time and I will probably regret it. So what do you know and what do you think was the reason for it?
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

What was the reason for the lack of questions?

When an enemy does something like the attack on the Liberty, it's an act of war.

When a 'friendly' state does it, it has to be an 'accident'. One of those fog-of-war, regrettable accidents. Sometimes, as in this case, neither an apology, nor an explanation is necessary.

America admits to such on a regular basis. That it can happen in reverse should come as no surprise.

Hope yer knees didn't buckle Sundowner.

Weatherguesser
Posted Wed 06 February 2008 05:07 AM
quote:
The only fact is that Israli jets and torpedo boats attacked the liberty and gunned the sailors as they were abandoning ship in life boats.


Wha??? They saved the ship, and nobody ordered it to be abandoned, nor did the crew TRY to abandon it.

Do you suppose you could post links to official and specific data concerning this sort of accusation, next time around?


Yes I will find the link I read where a survivor stated they were straffed in life boats.

Weatherguesser
Posted Wed 06 February 2008 05:07 AM
quote:
The only fact is that Israli jets and torpedo boats attacked the liberty and gunned the sailors as they were abandoning ship in life boats.


Wha??? They saved the ship, and nobody ordered it to be abandoned, nor did the crew TRY to abandon it.

Do you suppose you could post links to official and specific data concerning this sort of accusation, next time around?



Heres one of many links

http://www.rense.com/general47/kidd.htm

popsiq

When a 'friendly' state does it, it has to be an 'accident'. One of those fog-of-war, regrettable accidents. Sometimes, as in this case, neither an apology, nor an explanation is necessary.


When a 'friendly' state does it, it has to be an 'accident'.

Or a joint ventured conspiracy to justify Americas involvement in the Israli war?.
Thats if you believe the stories of the sailors who were there and survived. Including a MOH recipient whos medal was awarded in the privacy of the washington navy yard????

quote:

Originally posted by Weatherguesser:

quote:

john2x - The only fact is that Israli jets and torpedo boats attacked the liberty and gunned the sailors as they were abandoning ship in life boats.

Wha??? They saved the ship, and nobody ordered it to be abandoned, nor did the crew TRY to abandon it. In fact they sailed it to a port for repairs, then back to U.S. Shores where it was eventually de-commissioned and scrapped, and many of the crew received medals for valor, including one MOH..

Do you suppose you could post links to official and specific data concerning this sort of accusation, next time around?

Lifeboats WERE put in the water, and machine gunned by Israelis. This according to survivors who were actually there.

http://www.ussliberty.org/report/report.htm

"Survivors also report that the torpedo boat crews fired on the inflated life boats launched by the crew after the captain gave the order "prepare to abandon ship."[24] This order had to be rescinded because the crew was unable to stand on the main deck without being fired upon and the life rafts were destroyed as they were launched.[25]"