RE: http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,159657_2,00.html


Thx, Cmdr Huber, for some common sense about this "incident".

Exactly. And, notice that he mentioned that this is something that is counted on every time you transit the Straits. And, my ship was always at gun quarters when we went through the Straits. And, we always expected to have a few IRG boats F with us on the way through. It is just everyday chit when you transit the Straits of Hormuz. I mean, chit. You are right off of the Iranian coast. And, in many parts, you are close enough to actually see Iran.

I have done this passage 11 times in my 22 years 3 months and 11 days( but who's counting) in the Navy and I saw Iranian(enemy?) and Omani(ally?) gunboats every time. This is just sensationalism at its best. If those CO's hadn't been ready for this we would have heard of that CO losing his/her command for "loss of confidence in the ability to command."

I don't see much newsworthy in this occurance other than the pictures looked kinda cool.


ETCS(SW) USN ret

Normal Ops in that part of the world. The thing I find interesting is CDR Huber has got to slam the Bush Administration for the incident and their foreign policy. CDR, what don't you remember about Iran being on the "axis of evil", their desire to destroy Israel, their support for terrorist organizations like Hamas, Islamic Jihad. All this came about because the world didn't stand up to Iran, Chamberline is still alive, I'm happier we have a Churchill in the White House than your boy Al.

Poor Jeff, early onset of Alzheimers?

Does "USS Cole" stimulate synaptic activity?
Or, would that only serve to remind him of the Arkansaw incontinence of WJC?

quote:

Originally posted by 10tenths:
Exactly. And, notice that he mentioned that this is something that is counted on every time you transit the Straits. And, my ship was always at gun quarters when we went through the Straits. And, we always expected to have a few IRG boats F with us on the way through. It is just everyday chit when you transit the Straits of Hormuz. I mean, chit. You are right off of the Iranian coast. And, in many parts, you are close enough to actually see Iran.

During the cold war we encountered the Ruskies everywhere....no guns...just waves of hello mates....running in on us would have caused a return then as it should now...

Please wake me up if the Iranians try the same thing off Norfolk!

What Jesus, Larry, Curley or Mr. Huber believe has nothing to do with it. It's what the greatest leader of all time believes that's important. And he believes that the Iranians were trying to sink his battleship at best, or actively mooning the Star Spangled Banner and threatening the peace of the world at worst.

To-day he's expecting the Israelis to give up their "occupation", in return for the security they need - by knowing that Iran, their archest, and only, existing 'enemy' can do them no harm. The next few weeks should be very interesting.

quote:

Originally posted by gmost:
Poor Jeff, early onset of Alzheimers?

Does "USS Cole" stimulate synaptic activity?
Or, would that only serve to remind him of the Arkansaw incontinence of WJC?

Well Hell! Remember the Maine. Or how about Pearl Harbor?

Wasn't the Cole tied up at a dock in Yemen?
That is scatological 'blowback'.

I guess this bozo would call the USS Stark and Cole incidents free training back in his day.

quote:

Originally posted by rayevinsonsr:
I guess this bozo would call the USS Stark and Cole incidents free training back in his day.

Did the Iranians do the Stark too? Omigod, we were told it was an Iraqi 'accident'.

Keep going Raye, you'll get one right yet.

quote:

Originally posted by popsiq:

quote:

Originally posted by rayevinsonsr:
I guess this bozo would call the USS Stark and Cole incidents free training back in his day.

Did the Iranians do the Stark too? Omigod, we were told it was an Iraqi 'accident'.

Keep going Raye, you'll get one right yet.

No No pipsqueek, the Bozo made mention of "in his day" subject to all references to small craft attacking U S naval vessels can be mentioned. We could have mentioned the Gulf of Sidra Ghadaffi gunboats. Oh, yeah, the Cole was not Iranians, try Al Qaeda types. It must have slip your uh mind? Khobar towers was Iranian.

quote:

Originally posted by popsiq:
What Jesus, Larry, Curley or Mr. Huber believe has nothing to do with it. It's what the greatest leader of all time believes that's important. And he believes that the Iranians were trying to sink his battleship at best, or actively mooning the Star Spangled Banner and threatening the peace of the world at worst.

To-day he's expecting the Israelis to give up their "occupation", in return for the security they need - by knowing that Iran, their archest, and only, existing 'enemy' can do them no harm. The next few weeks should be very interesting.

Greatest Leader of all time? What does Bill Belichick have to do with Iran?

So I-RAN up to this guy and I ask, "YE-MAN, who's on first?" And he says, "Exactly!" In some games you still can't tell the players even if you have a scorecard.

quote:

Originally posted by Sausagenfo:
Normal Ops in that part of the world. The thing I find interesting is CDR Huber has got to slam the Bush Administration for the incident and their foreign policy. CDR, what don't you remember about Iran being on the "axis of evil", their desire to destroy Israel, their support for terrorist organizations like Hamas, Islamic Jihad. All this came about because the world didn't stand up to Iran, Chamberline is still alive, I'm happier we have a Churchill in the White House than your boy Al.

Churchill? Which Churchill? Wally Churchill? Fred Churchill? Because the current incumbant has nothing in common with the former British Prime Minister Winston Churchill, whom was a eloquent, brilliant, leader. Churchill used diplomacy with finesse and saw the problems coming well before many others did because of his intense knowledge of history and the situation on the european continent. This president (and his advisors, knew nothing about Iraq, or how much they resented the US because we failed to protect them during the uprising GHWB encouraged after Gulf War I), is (in)famous for after being warned by George Tenet about an impending attack on the US by terrorists for stating that "he was tired of swatting flies...". Just watch the current incumbant whenever he speaks and the teleprompter is turned off (Winston Churchill didn't have one to use): it makes his handlers cringe whenever he goes off script.

This president was significantly aided by the Iranians after 9/11 with considerable intelligence, etc, prior to the invasion of Afganistan. They came to the USA "hat-in-hand" to bury the hatchet on ALL outstanding issues post 9/11 realizing that things had gotten out of hand and that it was time to mend fences. Then THIS president included Iran in the now infamous "axis of evil" speech in a cheap political stunt. The end result has not been favorable (as the Iraniqan leadership is vastly smarter than the "faith-based" fools we're stuck with), with this president being successfully duped into invading Iraq based on bogus intelligence Ahmed Chalabai and the even more dishonest "Deep Throat" asset (known to be a pathological liar to many of our allies intelligence organizations) provided, thereby removing the one major regional threat Iran had. As an added bonus, our CiC essentially forced them into the arms of the Russians and Chinese, who are in a prime position to veto anything we want to do to them in the UN, supply the Iranians with nuclear fuel, arms, and political cover - all while making the Iranians the biggest power in the region.

We (the USA) are now considered to be a larger threat to world peace than a communist dictatorship by 93% of the worlds population. This president has ok'd the committing of international crimes (extraordinary renditions, torture), local crimes (direct violations of FISA, warrentless wire tappings, and treason for outing an active CIA officer), not to mention doubling the combined national debt incurred by all presidents from Washington through Reagan by borrowing the money from the communists that can now destroy our economy).

This doesn't count the highly damaging fiscal, monetary, economic, or environmental policies. Or the loss of face to the rest of the planet. Or the loss of credibility. Or the amount of money we're going to have to spend to repair all the hardware that is rapidly deteriorating in the desert. We are at our lowest rediness state since the end of Viet Nam, and our troops are tired.

Whether friend or foe, conservative or liberal, this administrations foreign policies (such as they are) have been nothing short of a disaster for the United States (this is lamentably the vast majority opinion of the international press). At least Winston Churchill was man enough to admit to his errors - contrast that to the blame-everyone-else-first mentality of the current administration.

The next several administrations will have their hands filled simply trying to repair the reputation of the US after the current incumbant leaves office.

Pity - because we will all suffer for it. And daddy's friends aren't going to bail him (or the rest of us) out this time.

quote:

Originally posted by rayevinsonsr:

quote:

Originally posted by popsiq:

quote:

Originally posted by rayevinsonsr:
I guess this bozo would call the USS Stark and Cole incidents free training back in his day.

Did the Iranians do the Stark too? Omigod, we were told it was an Iraqi 'accident'.

Keep going Raye, you'll get one right yet.

No No pipsqueek, the Bozo made mention of "in his day" subject to all references to small craft attacking U S naval vessels can be mentioned. We could have mentioned the Gulf of Sidra Ghadaffi gunboats. Oh, yeah, the Cole was not Iranians, try Al Qaeda types. It must have slip your uh mind? Khobar towers was Iranian.

We were relying on "classified intelligence" to pin Khobar Towers on Iran, as you recall, and William Perry, who was SecDef at the time, has backed off the accusation. Certainly everyone actually charged in the incident, with the exception of one Lebanese, was Saudi, and the fact that they called themselves "Hezbullah in the Hejaz" isn't quite enough for me.

What troubles me is not what we are making of the incident ... it is sort of like a three-card monte player trying to practice on native New Yorkers. Most of us have enough experience to take this "fleet" at its approximate true value. I am not so confident of the 95% of Americans who have no clue at all of naval operations anywhere, and they are likely to put an entirely different, and erroneous, interpretation on the events. I am not comfortable about making scary war noises about Iran at the moment, when we are already up to our eyeballs in two separate conflicts, and that looks like what we are doing.

quote:

Originally posted by rayevinsonsr:

quote:

Originally posted by popsiq:

quote:

Originally posted by rayevinsonsr:
I guess this bozo would call the USS Stark and Cole incidents free training back in his day.

Did the Iranians do the Stark too? Omigod, we were told it was an Iraqi 'accident'.

Keep going Raye, you'll get one right yet.

No No pipsqueek, the Bozo made mention of "in his day" subject to all references to small craft attacking U S naval vessels can be mentioned. We could have mentioned the Gulf of Sidra Ghadaffi gunboats. Oh, yeah, the Cole was not Iranians, try Al Qaeda types. It must have slip your uh mind? Khobar towers was Iranian.

All but one of the people indicted for Khobar are Saudi. The other is Lebanese.

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/teralmughassil.htm
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/teralnasser.htm
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terelhoorie.htm
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/teralyacoub.htm
...they all belong to a group called Saudi Hizbul'lah, which led people to speculate for some time that Iran was culpable. However, former SECDEF William Perry now believes that bin Laden may have been behind the bombing.
http://www.upi.com/Security_Terrorism/Briefing/2007/06/..._after_bombing/7045/

quote:

Originally posted by gmost:
Poor Jeff, early onset of Alzheimers?

Does "USS Cole" stimulate synaptic activity?
Or, would that only serve to remind him of the Arkansaw incontinence of WJC?

The Cole incident happened because our Force Protection in foreign ports was very lax. That has changed. We now have extremely tight FP in foreign ports. We have topside rovers that were not in place during the Cole incident. We have a FPO and others that man the m-60s. We often will have .50 cal manned or at least on notice. We also have security boats that protect the barrier. We also have a lot of other techniques and we train for everything from a swimmer in the water (ever get hit by active 53C at full power at 100 yards?) to a go-fast boat coming in. We also train for anything that could happen pierside. Cole will not happen again.

There is no comparing this to the Cole due to the fact that everything is manned while transiting the Straits. I have transited the Straits at least 20 times and this crap that is on the news is regular activity in 5th Fleet. To be honest, those boats were not that close. And, they know what our perimeter is and they do test it. But, they rarely obscenely break those perimeters. Because they know exactly what would happen. But, they do F with us. And, you know what, we F with them, as well. It is just the regular "fun" of being in 5th Fleet.

Also, the video showed a few Dhows. These guys often break the perimeter due to the fact that they are stupid fishermen and do not know much better. But, they learn pretty quick when they end up getting their azzes boarded by our VBSS team. Keeping their azz locked up and hostage on their own boat for a day or two usually makes them learn pretty quick.

You guys are really making a mountain out of a mole hill with this story. If you have never been on a ship out there and you weren't on any of these ships, then you are just talking out of your arse.

everything is Bush's fault
I beleive Bush is one of our best presidents
of course I'm not a demowhacko

quote:

Originally posted by 10tenths:

quote:

Originally posted by gmost:
Poor Jeff, early onset of Alzheimers?

Does "USS Cole" stimulate synaptic activity?
Or, would that only serve to remind him of the Arkansaw incontinence of WJC?

The Cole incident happened because our Force Protection in foreign ports was very lax. That has changed. We now have extremely tight FP in foreign ports. We have topside rovers that were not in place during the Cole incident. We have a FPO and others that man the m-60s. We often will have .50 cal manned or at least on notice. We also have security boats that protect the barrier. We also have a lot of other techniques and we train for everything from a swimmer in the water (ever get hit by active 53C at full power at 100 yards?) to a go-fast boat coming in. We also train for anything that could happen pierside. Cole will not happen again.

There is no comparing this to the Cole due to the fact that everything is manned while transiting the Straits. I have transited the Straits at least 20 times and this crap that is on the news is regular activity in 5th Fleet. To be honest, those boats were not that close. And, they know what our perimeter is and they do test it. But, they rarely obscenely break those perimeters. Because they know exactly what would happen. But, they do F with us. And, you know what, we F with them, as well. It is just the regular "fun" of being in 5th Fleet.

Also, the video showed a few Dhows. These guys often break the perimeter due to the fact that they are stupid fishermen and do not know much better. But, they learn pretty quick when they end up getting their azzes boarded by our VBSS team. Keeping their azz locked up and hostage on their own boat for a day or two usually makes them learn pretty quick.

You guys are really making a mountain out of a mole hill with this story. If you have never been on a ship out there and you weren't on any of these ships, then you are just talking out of your arse.

It wasn't a matter of "lax" force protection. We didn't make a serious effort to develop a tangible force protection/antiterrorism strategy until after the 1998 bombings in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam. Our infrastructure was still building up back then, so we still had many soft spots.