RE: http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,157176,00.html

Look, ever since 1946, the zoomy buys have thought the they were the only ones authorized to play in the wild blue yonder. The AF fought against anyone having helicopters, then fought against arming copters. They believe that they alone should do CAS and look down on their brethern flying the fantastic A-10 as a dead end job in the mud. Most think of CAS as dumping ordance from 10,000 ft in order to dogfight. If I needed CAS, I requested A-10s, Apaches or hopefully USMC- those boys understand CAS, if there ain't grass struck on the wheels, then they weren't low enough!. Didn't know that in Afghanistan or Iraq, that they skies were filled with civilian AC around targets. Just aounds like AF sour grapes, as usual.!

I was attached to the ROMADS/CTT's in the 80's to learn how to call in and direct Air Force aircraft,most of the pilots I knew were good guys but had an elitist attitude about what they did.
As I understand it a kid with gaming back ground could fly these weapons.

Funny...I thought all military pilots were elitists no matter what their affiliation is.

lovatscot-
I believe you're getting missions confused. The USAF is currently flying almost exclusive ISR missions with the UAVs. Other agencies are flying armed combat missions...for the most part. By the way the Air Force has been providing superb CAS since at least WWII (CAS wasnt' really defined as a doctrine until that time). Ask some ground pounders that have had their butts pulled out of the fire by an F-15E and you'll get the real story.

EvilCoy-
Flying UAVs is not like playing X-Box or a video game. I haven't flown one but I have spent time in the F-15 simulator. If you don't know how to really fly an aircraft you will put it in the dirt...everytime. There is some skill involved, believe it or not.

IMHO the Army should not be taking this role on. They can't even fill all of their current slots in the AOR as it is. USAF and USN personnel are picking up ILO slots at about 20,000 per rotation. The Army needs to focus on doing what it does best. Ground combat. Mark my words, this endeavor will surely fail.

I have never flown a full scale aircraft as a pilot. I do have 40 years experience flying radio controlled model airplanes,(a form of UAV). I have been an instructor pilot for numerous students during that time. I have found in recent years that youngsters who have extensive experience on computer airplane games learn to fly RC much faster than those that do not. BUT, being good at computer games DOES NOT qualify someone to fly RC aircraft.
I was recently a guest at the Flight Simulator section at Boeing in St Louis. They had an F/A-18 simulator set up for a carrier landing. The sim started out a couple miles behind the carrier and had an auto throttle set up, but the "pilot" had to fly all three axis of the aircraft. I successfully landed the aircraft on my first try. It was a bit right of center and a hard landing, but still successful. The sim operator said the aircraft might have been damaged, but probably not.
My point in this comparison is that computer games experience would be helpful in learning to fly something like a Predator, Reaper, Global Hawk, etc, but would NOT enable a person to just set down at a control console and do so. Being an experienced Radio Control, read that also as "Remote Control", pilot would put a person much closer to being capable of controlling a full scale UAV. An experience RC pilot's understanding of aerodynamics, why an airplane does what it does with various control inputs and the ability to "project" yourself into the cockpit would be invaluable in learning to fly a UAV.

UAV's? Whoa. It is unbelievable how the Army is trying to take over all of the roles of the other services into its own.

An entire fleet of 540 UAVs, armed with 8 hell fire rockets? HOLY BATCAVES, BATMAN.

It is no surprise that the AirForce is trying to stick their foots back in the door, trying to justify their existence.

The guys up their in the Pentagon have a large war funding bill, and they see it is the ARMY's war primarily, so they are trying to have it all without risking the lives of manned aircraft.

They've realized that investing money into the AirForce is too expensive. The AF is looking to purchase some big aircraft, and the military is saying it is uneccessary and a waste. I don't know what they are planning to do if they can't modernalize themselves

I dunno, let's just see how this all goes, and give it adequate feedback when we have closure.

To the future

"The wing aims to convert 240 students in 2007..."

Why spend all that money to train an Air Force pilot to fly jets, send them to upgrade training for their initial weapons system later send them to UAVs for a subsequent assignment and have to integrate them into the Army's mission?

The shortest distance between two points is a direct line, unless it means taking the toys from the boys in blue.

Look at all the enlisted troops being discharged in order for the Air Force to "recapitalize" its aircraft fleet.

I bet the fighter pilots would leave their wives before giving up their aircraft. Just consider their fight to kill the UAVs in the first place.

Also the Army is willing to deploy ALL its troops in support of UAVs while the USAF only sends the support troops and lets its pilots fly them from home stations via satellite.

Hopefully the politicians will let the troops who actually fight the battles on the ground have some say in this issue.

I went through four months of tech school at an army base (Ft.Gordon). As an airman I wanted badly to be put onto the UAV circuit , ranked 3rd in my class.So much for 2E and telemetry. It is obvious when you go through the training that it's going towards the army, in this field. I just got stuck baby sitting grandpa's satellites that the space shuttle put into orbit, big help that does with the ol GWOT.

Wasn't the name of this artical also the name of an old B movie???

Well I don't know too much about them flying machines, but it would seem to me that anyone flying one by remote had better know his job inside and out and had also be prepared to take the hits that come with the responsibility of firin' off a couple bombs or rockets, or something. Seems to me there's a lot of responsibility that comes with that job and maybe a commissioned officer should be assinged that duty and responsibility. Ya can't hang an NCO for what an officer should be doing.

quote:

Originally posted by richard1245:
be prepared to take the hits that come with the responsibility of firin' off a couple bombs or rockets, or something. Seems to me there's a lot of responsibility that comes with that job and maybe a commissioned officer should be assinged that duty and responsibility.

An M-1 tank has more hurt packed into its turret than a squadron of UAV's has under the wings, in pounds of boom-stuff. Are you suggesting that all tank commanders be made officers?

At the end of the day, there is a real difference in how each service views its enlisted personnel. The Army entrusts a PFC with a rifle with the authority to kill someone. The airforce views its enlisted as technically gifted peasants.

Ben

If the USAF was willing to meet the Army's needs for responsive RSTA, Attack, and Communications Relay, we wouldn't need this massive program.

Here is the major issue for the Air Force:

The Army has finally said hey " The air force can't keep up with our ISR and immediate supression needs." So in light of this the Army has taken the problem in their own hands. They have decided to expand their UAV fleet which they have had for 20 years now...Yes since the eighties. The Army first deployed UAV's, however, during Kosovo.

The problem that the Air Force has with enlisted flying UAV's is not that they are not "Rated" pilots because all Army UAV operators go through FAA ground school per regulations and 6 months of UAV school plus another 2 months of Warrior training. The issue with Air Force pilots lies with the fact that the man on the ground no longer requires the Air Force jockey to provide him immediate air support. In fact, now that the Army has the warrior program, the man on the ground probably already has a warrior flying above and has been flying above for about 30 hours. This feat is not accomplishable by a manned aviator, nor would a manned aviator even consider this because they are too worried about themselves. The Army has taken the steps required to ensure that their forces can in fact provide direct aerial support for prolonged timeframes while also providing the ground commander with ISR support. This asset is crucial to the Army's current mission in IRaq and Afghanistan.

As far as enlisted operating "armed" aircraft, as said before in this discussion, enlisted operate the M1 main battle tank. This tank packs more punch than most weapons in the military. So how is this an issue now you say? It's not! It's just about politics and the Air Force wanting control of the sky. Well let me tell you this: If you can't keep up with best, stay home with the rest Air Force!

A UAV Sergeant in the Army

The problem with opinions is that they aren't usuful for making decisions. Establishing criteria for remote operation of flying robots is what is critical. You have to have people with the right attitude and who can separate reality from gamming. Flying a robot into a jumbo jet should result in holding the "gamer" fully accountable.

I don't know about you all, but I for one welcome our new Robot Overlords.

Is this the future?

Here's a description of a new type of 30 lb., 7 ft. long unmanned attack helicopter:

"Bringing Terror to the Terrorists"

What is it?
It’s not a machine. It’s an electronically projected soldier. It can do everything the soldier can do on his own: shoot a rifle, throw a grenade, patrol, observe, report, ambush, stalk, kill.
But it gives him the power to fly at 70 miles an hour, go straight up 15,000 feet, flank any position from any side, above or behind, and is too small to hit, and to cheap to care. It laughs at small arms fire, dancing in the sky 100 hundred yards out, spitting death.
To it, the RPG’s and Milans that knock out 60 ton main battle tanks and shoot down multi-million dollar conventional aircraft are just a joke.
It’s not big, expensive and vulnerable. It’s small, agile, cheap, unstoppable, deadly.
It can sit on a mountain top for days, silently watching, sending back invaluable recon or rising instantly for the kill. It can sit on the edge of a building or next to a bush, watching for IED teams or snipers. It doesn’t have to call in heavy air support. It is the ultimate suprise attack. It can look into a sniper’s lair 20 stories up and then fill the room with 19 frag-12 grenades in 4 seconds. It can follow an enemy back to his lair unseen. It can look right into a targets face for ultimate identification. It can float down an alley and shoot down a mortar team miles away from advancing troops or blow away an RPG operator hiding around the next corner. There can be hundreds of them, thousands, swarming over a battlefield, saturating the battlefield ahead of advancing ground troops. The enemy has nowhere to hide, nowhere to run. It doesn’t get cold or hungry and is never afraid. It can hunt and kill anything, anywhere, anytime.
What is it?
To the strategists, it’s a revolution rivaling the first tanks or aircraft.
For our troops, it’s the ultimate force multiplier, the grunts best friend.
For the oppressed, it’s liberation.
For the enemy, it’s simply the wrath of God.