RE: http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,141361,00.html

”The truth from WOPA. Is that an oxymoron?”

I’m not now, nor ever will I ever be ready to accept Wicca as a legitimate Faith. It is just one 1/2 step away from NAMBLA. And I think that is what we will be accepting next at Arlington.

I guess that should have hit a lot of liberals where it hurts. Perfect “PC” - let’s include everyone.

At least that’s the way this old soldier sees it.

WOPA!
“If you have to ask, you wouldn’t understand and if I told you … well you know how that’s goes."

quote:

Originally posted by OldArmyWOPA:
RE: http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,141361,00.html

”The truth from WOPA. Is that an oxymoron?”

I’m not now, nor ever will I ever be ready to accept Wicca as a legitimate Faith. It is just one 1/2 step away from NAMBLA. And I think that is what we will be accepting next at Arlington.

I guess that should have hit a lot of liberals where it hurts. Perfect “PC” - let’s include everyone.

At least that’s the way this old soldier sees it.

WOPA!
“If you have to ask, you wouldn’t understand and if I told you … well you know how that’s goes."

Welcome Chief Warrant Officer, and thank you for serving!

Salute!!!!!!!!!!

Agreed, the article would have been more truthful had it said "desicration service."

Many branched but one brotherhood!

Wicca is as much a religion as anyone else's...

We serve, and some of us continue to serve a nation founded on Judean-Christian principles as described numerous times in countless papers and documents of our founding fathers. One nation under God; one God, the God of Moses and Abraham, and I believe without a doubt, the God who came to earth over two thousand years ago to acheive victory over death for us. Tolerance of Wicca and other pagan religions means only that we don't respond in anger, fear and violence; not that we should tolorate and include those beliefs in our government and sacred institutions, and in clear deference to our founders whose vision, and victory over an overwelming enemy was clearly the inspiration and providence of God.

”The truth from WOPA. Is that an oxymoron?”

“Consider it added!"

At least that’s the way this old soldier sees it.

WOPA!
“If you have to ask, you wouldn’t understand and if I told you … well you know how that’s goes."

quote:

Welcome Chief Warrant Officer, and thank you for serving!

Salute!!!!!!!!!!

Agreed, the article would have been more truthful had it said "desicration service."

I've got to ask, just what defines a legitimate faith?

If a Pagan or Wiccan gives their life for this county they deserve to be recognized, despite the intollerance of MTC and WOPA, and others like them.

Religion is the presence of the divine felt in your heart and soul. Instead of closing your mind to others, why not instead think that a being you believe to be all powerful might know a little bit more than you about communicating with others. Maybe, just maybe, that God is speaking to each of us in a language we will understand.

Lose the "I am right so you must be wrong" attitude and we would see a lot less hatred over differences!

I think any good soldier who fights for his or her country and his or her freedom should realize that he or she is fighting for the freedom of all. "My country may she ever be right, but right or wrong my country" I personally don't believe in the same thing Wicca does, but my best friend is Wiccan and I love him. Our constitution was put together by people that were religiously oppressed, they added the freedom to worship as we please to stop people from tirading over what God or gods we pray to. The military should be non-biased in spirit of the rights people that we have loved and known and honored have died for.

”The truth from WOPA. Is that an oxymoron?”

If you believe that, then you believe that NAMBL is a religion. Aren’t they both headquartered in Rhode Island?

At least that’s the way this old soldier sees it.

WOPA!
“If you have to ask, you wouldn’t understand and if I told you … well you know how that’s goes."

quote:

yankeedog67
Basic Training

Posted Fri 06 July 2007 04:16 AM Hide Post
Wicca is as much a religion as anyone else's

”The truth from WOPA. Is that an oxymoron?”

Try telling that to OSBL! BTW, I am right!

At least that’s the way this old soldier sees it.

WOPA!
“If you have to ask, you wouldn’t understand and if I told you … well you know how that’s goes."

quote:

I've got to ask, just what defines a legitimate faith?

If a Pagan or Wiccan gives their life for this county they deserve to be recognized, despite the intollerance of MTC and WOPA, and others like them.

Religion is the presence of the divine felt in your heart and soul. Instead of closing your mind to others, why not instead think that a being you believe to be all powerful might know a little bit more than you about communicating with others. Maybe, just maybe, that God is speaking to each of us in a language we will understand.

Lose the "I am right so you must be wrong" attitude and we would see a lot less hatred over differences!

quote:

...I believe without a doubt, the God who came to earth over two thousand years ago to acheive victory over death for us.

And bumblebees the size of Volkswagens are attacking downtown Dubuque. Religion is superstition...all of it.

I have no objections. It's not what is on the tombstone that counts, it's where you spend eternity.

Semper Fidelis

Same old bleeding-heart liberal song. "Unity through diversity". Just keep it up when those radical muslims come knocking on your door with bombs strapped to their torso or when you receive news that your son, daughter, or other family member has been killed by a suicide bomber. There really is such a thing as right and wrong, good and bad, it's not all just shades of gray.

It's unfortunate that our country has become submissive to the wants of the few, the weak, the wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by LianYu:
Tolerance of Wicca and other pagan religions means only that we don't respond in anger, fear and violence; not that we should tolorate and include those beliefs in our government and sacred institutions, and in clear deference to our founders whose vision, and victory over an overwelming enemy was clearly the inspiration and providence of God.

Pagan is defined as "1. a person who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew; heathen: formerly, sometimes applied specif. to a non-Christian by Christians. 2. a person who has no religion."

So, by that definition, you say the U.S. should "refuse to tolerate" anyone who is not Christian, Muslim or Jew. You refuse to tolerate the Dalai Lama and all Buddists? Shintoism and other long established Eastern religions? Native Americans' beliefs?

Or is it simply that some do, indeed, fear those who are not exactly like they perceive religion should be, thereby belying the Christian concepts of compassion and understanding?

This nation was founded, in part, by people fleeing religious persecution, although a number of them promptly persecuted others not of their faith. This mess was partly why we have separation of church and state. But that does not mean the state must refuse to recognize any religion except the majority one -- for then the state has violated the spirit of separation of church and state.

Wicca is just as valid a religion to its true believers as Christianity, etc. No one is harmed by the simple acknowledgement that they have a given faith with a symbol that can be carved into a tombstone.

If a simple symbol frightens one into demanding "non-tolerence," perhaps some internal comtemplation is warranted. But it's not a government issue, and IMHO nothing to be feared or "not tolerated."

It doesn't matter what religion you are, if you give your all to protect our freedoms you should have whatever you want on your grave marker. Its about time the right thing was done.

Well said, Elizabeth. James Madison said, "Whilst we assert for ourselves a freedom to embrace, to profess, and to observe the religion which we believe to be of divine origin, we cannot deny an equal freedom to those whose minds have not yet yielded to the evidence which has convinced us. If this freedom be abused, it is an offense against God, not against man: To God therefore, not to men, must an account of it be rendered." As you so eloquently explained, that's far different than our government embracing other religions.

quote:

Originally posted by LianYu:
We serve, and some of us continue to serve a nation founded on Judean-Christian principles as described numerous times in countless papers and documents of our founding fathers. One nation under God; one God, the God of Moses and Abraham, and I believe without a doubt, the God who came to earth over two thousand years ago to acheive victory over death for us. Tolerance of Wicca and other pagan religions means only that we don't respond in anger, fear and violence; not that we should tolorate and include those beliefs in our government and sacred institutions, and in clear deference to our founders whose vision, and victory over an overwelming enemy was clearly the inspiration and providence of God.

Interestingly, the Secular Humanist (#32), Atheist (#16) and Unitarian Church /UUA (#08)symbols of belief have been approved for VA headstones, along with a number of obscure religions, for years. See: http://www.cem.va.gov/cem/hm/hmemb.asp

Why not Wicca?...because knee-jerking Administration right wing bluenosers assumed it's a satanist cult, which it is not. Wicca is more akin to Native America Church and other naturalist belief systems.

quote:

Originally posted by donm49:

quote:

...I believe without a doubt, the God who came to earth over two thousand years ago to acheive victory over death for us.

And bumblebees the size of Volkswagens are attacking downtown Dubuque. Religion is superstition...all of it.

quote:

We serve, and some of us continue to serve a nation founded on Judean-Christian principles as described numerous times in countless papers and documents of our founding fathers. One nation under God; one God, the God of Moses and Abraham, and I believe without a doubt, the God who came to earth over two thousand years ago to acheive victory over death for us. Tolerance of Wicca and other pagan religions means only that we don't respond in anger, fear and violence; not that we should tolorate and include those beliefs in our government and sacred institutions, and in clear deference to our founders whose vision, and victory over an overwelming enemy was clearly the inspiration and providence of God.

I believe that I said it clearly enough: Tolerance does not mean acceptance. Likewise, my Christian faith commands me to spread the word of God as it is written; too it tells me to kick the dust off my feet and move on when I am unsuccessful. I hope that my religioun doesn't offend anyone here, especially non-saved veterans who have tread the same ground I have in service to our country. Finally, I say again that the founders of our nation were inspired and victorious through God's grace, that is, the God of Abraham and Moses, the one and only God of the universe.

quote:

Originally posted by 1DEVILDOG1:
I have no objections. It's not what is on the tombstone that counts, it's where you spend eternity.

Semper Fidelis

Cognitive behavioral psychologist Albert Ellis says the probablity is 99.9% that when die we return to the same state we were in before conception. WHAT A RELIEF!

quote:

Originally posted by LianYu:
We serve, and some of us continue to serve a nation founded on Judean-Christian principles as described numerous times in countless papers and documents of our founding fathers. One nation under God; one God, the God of Moses and Abraham, and I believe without a doubt, the God who came to earth over two thousand years ago to acheive victory over death for us. Tolerance of Wicca and other pagan religions means only that we don't respond in anger, fear and violence; not that we should tolorate and include those beliefs in our government and sacred institutions, and in clear deference to our founders whose vision, and victory over an overwelming enemy was clearly the inspiration and providence of God.

Some of our good christian founding fathers:
Thomas Paine was a pamphleteer whose manifestos encouraged the faltering spirits of the country and aided materially in winning the war of Independence: "I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of...Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all."
George Washington, the first president of the United States, never declared himself a Christian according to contemporary reports or in any of his voluminous correspondence. Washington Championed the cause of freedom from religious intolerance and compulsion.
John Adams, the country's second president, was drawn to the study of law but faced pressure from his father to become a clergyman. He wrote that he found among the lawyers 'noble and gallant achievments" but among the clergy, the "pretended sanctity of some absolute dunces". Late in life he wrote: "Twenty times in the course of my late reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!"
Thomas Jefferson, third president and author of the Declaration of Independence, said:"I trust that there is not a young man now living in the United States who will not die a Unitarian." He referred to the Revelation of St. John as "the ravings of a maniac" and wrote:
The Christian priesthood, finding the doctrines of Christ levelled to every understanding and too plain to need explanation, saw, in the mysticisms of Plato, materials with which they might build up an artificial system which might, from its indistinctness, admit everlasting controversy, give employment for their order, and introduce it to profit, power, and pre-eminence. The doctrines which flowed from the lips of Jesus himself are within the comprehension of a child; but thousands of volumes have not yet explained the Platonisms engrafted on them: and for this obvious reason that nonsense can never be explained."

Just don't see these people as intolorent fundamentalists, do you?

quote:

Well said, Elizabeth. James Madison said, "Whilst we assert for ourselves a freedom to embrace, to profess, and to observe the religion which we believe to be of divine origin, we cannot deny an equal freedom to those whose minds have not yet yielded to the evidence which has convinced us. If this freedom be abused, it is an offense against God, not against man: To God therefore, not to men, must an account of it be rendered." As you so eloquently explained, that's far different than our government embracing other religions.

THANKS MARINE. Sometimes it is a lonely walk convincing others that our existence as a nation was influenced by the hand of God, and that freedom OF religion was never meant to be freedom FROM religion. I am greatful for everyone's service to our country, but I can't be accepting of ALL religions. To do so would mean that there is no clearly defined right and no clearly defined wrong. My own ancestors were of an ancient eastern cult that pre-dates Abraham. Likewise, they were swept and absorbed by the early Moslems before breaking from that false belief. I can't hate non-believers, but I can fight them if they are against us as a nation and a people, and I can express my Christian views to non-believers if they serve with me. THANKS AGAIN.