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Mullahs and Missiles
http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,171458,00.html OK... a history lesson; Shortly after WWII the Russians developed and then exploded their first Atom Bomb, followed a few short years later by a Hydrogen Bomb, followed shortly thereafter by ICBM's to carry them... all this after we had already developed all those same technologies. What did we do about it? First, let's not forget that the Russians had a 5 million man Army, and Air Force and Navy and with tens of thousands of tanks ALL pointed at Western Europe and US, and they were a genuine and immediate threat to the entire word. What we did was institute a program of "MAD", or Mutually Assured Destruction", meaning that we would match and surpass them on every weapons system, for as long as it took, and it took 50 YEARS. But they knew full well we would use ours if they used their's, and the USSR would have been destroyed 5 times over. The end result? We eventually BROKE the Soviet System, and that eventually ended the threat to us, and our Allies, and The Cold War. So, it would seem to this Cold-War Veteran that the exact same program(s) should be instituted NOW, we should talk to them as we did with the Russians(many, many times) and begin the process of burying the Iranians and anybody else that wants to go head-to-head in another "MAD" arms race, until they can go no further and MUST negotiate a lasting and equitable PEACE. It worked once, it would work again. They may have lots of Oil, but they do NOT have the resources that the USSR had, not by any stretch of the imagination, and therefore they could NOT sustain a long term effort to try to scare us with a few nukes, especially since they KNOW we and the Israelis would turn their sand-heap world into a HUGE chunk of flat glass. So my question is... how can they possibly scare us? They can't, unless the administration wants you to THINK they can, that is. |
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Weatherguesser: You're exactly right.
In addition... the author closes with "No amount of striped-pants happy-talk is likely to dissuade Tehran from its intended course. That leaves us, and other like-minded states, with little choice but to do whatever's needed to protect our interests.? First, his cartooning of using diplomacy as "striped-pants happy-talk" is colorful but adolescent. It's that kind of school-yard bravado that got us into this mess. Second, his reference to "...us, and other like-minded states..." sounds like neocon-speak for another "coalition of the willing." In other words, more unilateralism. Lastly, the chilling, Cheney-esque closer of "...do whatever's needed to protect our interests" sounds exactly like arguments for the imperial policy of preemption. We've heard this kind of chest thumping before... before invading Iraq. And one more observation... it's not just what Mr. Brooks is saying, which has some validity as to threats and belligerence between nations. He glaringly omits something.... Israel? |
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Member -------------------  Proud Member Derelict Veterans Group -------------------  |
I think you folks are missing the point- 1) Iran is not Russia, nor has it ever been. The Russians felt assured that Communisim would overcome all obstacles, and they expanded that system thru their puppet states and local wars to encompass 1/3 of the world before it fell apart. MAD did not destroy them, their enconomy collapsed and when Russia went down, most of the puppets did too. 2) Russia did not foster religious hatred- hell they didn't believe in any religion. Iran thinks that the US (Greater Satan) and Russia (Lesser Satan) should be cleansed and occupied, Israel should be eliminated- They teach this, they preach this constantly. 3)This is a country that fought with Iraq ( who used posion gas) for 8 years. Their tactics against Iraq's modern weapons was to send their young men, often with little or no weapons in human wave attacks against fixed defenses and push the Revoluntary Guards thru the gaps made. Iran's whole purpose in life is the establish another Muslim Empire across the face of the earth, and kill or enslave anyone who doesn't believe as they do- Please show me where Russia ever did that! Please show me where Russia ever had a religious fanantic holding his finger over a nuclear missle! Russia has always had to win but without destroying Mother Russia. Iran doesn't care how many millions of people die because of it or for it as long as they win, period. You bozo's are comparing apples to hand grenades- apples won't hurt, grenades really smart when they go off!
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Nonsense. It was BECAUSE of the arms race and MAD that they went down, as that is what broke them. Sorry, but that is historical fact. I lived through most of the Cold War, I was a kid when the 1962 Missile Crisis happened, I was in the Navy during Vietnam and my ship chased or was chased by Soviet ships, always. (2) The "USSR"(not Russia) fostered a world-wide fight between Communism vs. Capitalism, and it worked quite well even into the 1960's. Their non-religion vs. ANY religion attitude played a part only in their control over their people, not because they equated religion with state. (3) The USSR sent 20 MILLION men and women in (and out of uniform - aka "civilians", their own) to their deaths during WWII. That is just about slightly more than Iran lost in their fight with Iraq, which by the way Iraq STARTED. MAD would assure us that they would never launch, because they would be destroyed 50 times over and could NOT retaliate against us for at least 50 years and by then they could very well be weaker than they are now, and compared to US? They are weak. They could have attacked Israel with Missiles already, so why haven't they if as you say they would gladly give up most of their society as casualties, by now? Because that is not true, it is propaganda. Lastly, the premise of what I said is sound, and the proof is that it has worked once before. The Iranians cannot possibly compete with a strong, capitalistic, non-sectarian U.S. arms race. They would have attacked Israel by now, if that were the case. The first thing we must do is announce that ANY attack on ANY U.S. ally in the region or ANY U.S. "interests" would be seen as an attack on US, and in JFK's words, "require a full retaliatory strike" immediately, on THEM. And by the way...? Please don't resort to calling me names. I don't like that, as I didn't and haven't ever done it to you. It's juvenile. |
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Sure. Look up the word "GULAG". By the way... we did it as well, albeit to a much smaller extent. Look up "MANZANAR". There were actually 10 of those kinds of concentration camps to hold Jaapanese citizens(U.S. citizens, that is), which WE built and filled with whole families, because of our FEAR. |
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One big difference is that thanks to our SUV culture, we are actually funding Iran's weapons through our oil imports.
We need all our leaders to put aside party politics and start a "Moon Shot" scale program to get us energy independent. This means working both the supply and demand sides of the energy equation. |
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Peter Brooks finally flips his lid...
Our governmental leadership is loaded already with two wars that are in part crushing our economy, and financed by of all people, a communist dictatorship. Just what we need - another war this president can't finish. Not to mention, Pete laddie, our already completely defiled reputation in the entire international arena. The standing of the US politically (not to mention credibility) is especially lousy in the middle east. Iran doesn't have to make us look bad - this president, in part following the advice of your so-called "think tank", has done that convincingly. Not to mention, that the US government (and you Pete!) already know that Iran is running out of oil in about 10 years (+/-). Hence, they have a legitimate reason to want nuclear plants to generate electricity. Ironically, two of our governments highest employees signed (actual physical signatories) onto the Iranian energy plan in the mid-70's when they were working for the Ford Administration (the Iranians were friends of the US when the Shah was running the show). One of them was Richard B, Cheney, the other Donald Rumsfeld. |
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Exactly right. I am voting a straight-party ticket this time around(Dems) to ensure that they have every opportunity to accomplish what you suggest, as I believe it too. But they better get it right the 1st time around or we are all sunk. Thankfully, we hve an example such as Apollo to show us that we CAN do such a thing... which by the way was also begun under a Democratic President and a sympathetic Congress, even while we were at war... a much BIGGER war. Nothing is impossible for our society when we have such an Idealistic Dream. Nothing. |
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At one time, we could bleed a county until it cried uncle...but not today. We no longer have the economic clout to bleed anyone as we are now the country being bled dry. We have run our national debt to astronomical amounts and our trade deficit is in dire straits. Frankly, I believe this is exactly what al Quaeda wanted when they attacked us on 9/11...to overreact without really thinking about the consequences of becoming involved in a ground war in the Middle-East...and to add insult to injury, the price of a barrel has compounded the problem. I'd really like to know the actual identity of these so called oil speculators? Bottom line, we cannot do to Iran what we did to Russia.
As to Iran, why should we be surprised they are rattling their sabers? They have seen us invade two countries that border Iran. I'm sure if foreign troops decided to occupy Canada and Mexico, we would be doing some serious saber rattling ourselves. Had we truly accepted legitimate tactical warfare by the book...Afghanistan would and should have been obliterated (no, not with nukes) once we knew al Quaeda was responsible for 9/11 and their government refused to turn over Osama and company...the country should have been blitzed until the Taliban turned over the culprits. No ground troops...24/7 attacks...I would not have cared if nearly all Afghans met Allah in the process. We had no compulsion in WW 2 bombing and killing hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people...I haven't read about anyone shedding a tear regarding the bombings and artillery barrages of WW 2. S/F Gordon |
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Warned for racist comments. 40 days 1 August 2008 USAF_76 |
I pray before the throne of God everyday that his chosen people will destroy the evil of Islam which now shows it's head in Iran. The Muj know only one thing and that is force.Islam is a Satanic religion and must be dealt with as such.
Stop Jihad |
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Interesting that it seems like Islamists have the same take on Christianity and The West. Such passions led to the Crusades, I believe. Besides a lot of death, destruction, enduring resentments and genetic intermingling I'm not too sure the Crusades accomplished all that much except great plotlines for books and movies. The fact is, our President openly and repeatedly threatened Iran. Unless, of course, you believe refering to a nation as "evil" is "diplomacy." Our country has a history within living memory of destructive meddling in Iranian affairs (you know... the Shah?). We have not been, are not, nor will ever be welcomed as an equal partner in Middle East affairs, no more than Egypt or Saudi Arabia would be welcomed in NAFTA talks (a different take on what uh34d was saying). |
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Warned for racist comments. 40 days 1 August 2008 USAF_76 |
It was Jimmy peanut Carter that stopped the Shah from crushing the emerging radical islamist Ayatolla Khomeni. Look what road that has lead us down.
Stop Jihad |
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What a croc...the Shah was on his way out long before Carter arrived on the scene thanks to Nixon and company and their involvement with Iran & the Shah. The country was in revolt, almost to an Iranian, they hated him and his repressive government that tortured and killed people ad nauseum...sorta like Saddam, and we invaded Iraq because he was a bad guy...sorta like the Shah.
Oh, and Carter had it right on energy...too bad we didn't listen...too bad Reagan gave us Reaganomics and the wonderful trickle down economy theory...it's all working so well for America. S/F Gordon ______________________________________________ echo3axial Posted Sat 12 July 2008 10:24 AM It was Jimmy peanut Carter that stopped the Shah from crushing the emerging radical islamist Ayatolla Khomeni. Look what road that has lead us down. Stop Jihad |
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[/QUOTE] |
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Ahh yes, once again Brookes is parroting Cheney's talking points, do you think Brookes should at least remove his tinfoil hat before he writes?
This is like Iraq all over again: Scare, Scare, Smoking Mushroom Cloud, Smoking Mushroom Cloud, Missiles Missiles, etc etc, All illuminating precisely the unhinged mindset that we have no option but to attack Iran, and of course these neoncons expect us to be greeted as liberators in Teheran and will have new oil contracts. Are they guessing that Israel will march overland and fight with us when they couldn't even clear out Hezbollah from Beirut? Looney logic is the operative word.  |
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Uhmmm I think Islam has been around awhile in Iran give or take a couple of--- centuries, does that change your viewpoint now? Didn't think so, but you've certainly made mine. Aaah dem Crusades, dem were de days  |
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I believe that fits into the category of a LIE. Or, you are absolutely foolish. Jimmy Carter never stopped the Shah from doing anything, except helping him get out of Iran - when his own people wanted his head on a platter. 7 years of THIS President's policies has been directly responsible for the failed strategy and constant bickering, between their nation and ours. Remember... Iran HELPED us after 9-11, and offered more of that help until OUR fearless leaders in the White House told them to shove it. |
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sniper, biker, cat racer, SFer, Chief, WWR, SF ret, author, lazy bum. |
The old low-tech Russian missiles only fly 6 or 700 miles and they don't work all the time. Iran is bluffing again and would not last a week in a dust up with us. They can't stop oil or anything else from going thru the straits. I was in Iran years ago and they are no toughter or smarter than any other 3rd world country. They just have oil for now and will run out soon and be eating camels again. They do seem to have the best looking women in the area. http://wwrutland.wordpress.com
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ALL
Returned to the Site, to find this article. My opine, for what its worth: 1. Iran is not Russia, multiple differences as a foe, either potential or hot. 2. The region is different than the old USSR. Lots of sand, desert, few major cities, population dispersed. A really bad place to fight. 3. The economic weapon they have, oil, is a big stick, IF the World lets it be. Iranian oil is not the onlly source of crude in the world. The Straits of Hormuz were cleared, patrolled and convoyed oil tankers thru there by our USN in the late 20th century. 4. Missles are notorious for not going where they are sent. Accuracy, vs multiples is the answer. Send a bunch and hope for the best. I noted in the MSS video that at least one had been computered generated to show more than were actually launched. 5. MAD worked, because McNamara said it would. No Pres. ever wanted to exercise the World Kill order, of retalitory strikes. A current candidate that we are examining now, would most likely hide under the Oval Office desk. In My Opine. The best way to contain Iran and his current leadership, is by HUMINT, The old OSS, CIA method. Subvert, infiltrate, coerce, denigrate, and generally give him a bad day, every day. end |
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