RE: http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,164549,00.html

This endless occupation is breaking the Army. Some political figures in this country have been warning about the drain of the officer corps from the military for years - witness Hagel and Webb - but still this Administration persists. People in their 20s and 30s want to start families and establish some stability. They can't do that in an endless cycle of deployments.

quote:

"I have served my time; I've done two tours in Iraq," said Captain Kirkner Bailey, 26, of the 3rd Armored Combat Regiment in Mosul. "For the past three years of my life, I have either been in Iraq or training to go to Iraq," he added. "I just know that there is more to life than this war, and my girlfriend Shannon and I are interested in finding out what that is." "I can't speak to trends," he said. "But 8 of my 10 friends who are captains are leaving the army."

8 of 10.

They are NOT leaving because of pay discrepancies, they are leaving because they need to be freed from the cycle of War and more War, endlessly.

I hope this man has a most wonderful life, full of Peace and Family, knowing that he gave his full measure to a grateful nation, a nation he certainly served exceedingly well.

Either MarineAuntie or Guesser know what the attrition rate of Army Captains were BEFORE the war?

I do, but I'd like to see if either of you can actually make truthful statements on the topic.

I have no idea... why should either of us know those statistics? But then, why should we doubt this man?

I posted the most truthful response I could based on this story, and it was only my OPINION.

But hey, give us your expertly informed "rest of the story", Lucky.

quote:

Originally posted by Weatherguesser:
I have no idea... why should either of us know those statistics? But then, why should we doubt this man?

I posted the most truthful response I could based on this story, and it was only my OPINION.

But hey, give us your expertly informed "rest of the story", Lucky.

Fair enough, so I suppose we can conclude the story is an op-ed piece based on the testimony of a few captains who also shared their "opinion."

Like the Captain said, "I can't speak to trends,"... "But 8 of my 10 friends who are captains are leaving the army."

By the way, the term is "land-owner" not "ground-owner" as the author stated.

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Originally posted by Lucky_Lieutenant:

quote:

Originally posted by Weatherguesser:
I have no idea... why should either of us know those statistics? But then, why should we doubt this man?

I posted the most truthful response I could based on this story, and it was only my OPINION.

But hey, give us your expertly informed "rest of the story", Lucky.

Fair enough, so I suppose we can conclude the story is an op-ed piece based on the testimony of a few captains who also shared their "opinion."

Like the Captain said, "I can't speak to trends,"... "But 8 of my 10 friends who are captains are leaving the army."

By the way, the term is "land-owner" not "ground-owner" as the author stated.

I'm afraid that is not what was requested. The request was for "the rest of the story", ya known, like, how many 0-3s left the service each year, say from 1995 to present, with a breakdown of reasons for leaving the service, if possible.

You presented yourself as in-the-know on this issue, so please present "the full story"

quote:

Originally posted by Lucky_Lieutenant:
Either MarineAuntie or Guesser know what the attrition rate of Army Captains were BEFORE the war?

I do, but I'd like to see if either of you can actually make truthful statements on the topic.

I think - you don't "know". I also think that you came in here gunning for a fight today.

And lastly? I also think you are a fraud.

My oldest son Tom gave his life in Iraq. He told his daughters that anyone can lead a corportation something that doesn't matter. He depoloyed with the guard and left benind a 6 figure income. He said freeing the children in Iraq is important. He volunteered with 11 years in. I wish there were more like my children. Patrick another captain is still serving wearing his brothers bars. Jennie their sister has over 10 in the NavRes. She's in surgery every day in Landsthul; on her 2nd year. I haven't heard any decention from either. I wish I knew the answer. Hope we don't have to get back to the draft which I was under. One of my son's best friends got out for a couple years and went back in. Preparing to deploy. There are only a few men who can take a message to "Garcia".

quote:

Originally posted by Lucky_Lieutenant:
Either MarineAuntie or Guesser know what the attrition rate of Army Captains were BEFORE the war?

I do, but I'd like to see if either of you can actually make truthful statements on the topic.

So far it's been 1 hour and 10 minutes... and still you provide us with no proof that you know anything at ALL about those numbers.

As I suspected.

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Originally posted by Weatherguesser:

quote:

Originally posted by Lucky_Lieutenant:
Either MarineAuntie or Guesser know what the attrition rate of Army Captains were BEFORE the war?

I do, but I'd like to see if either of you can actually make truthful statements on the topic.

I think - you don't "know". I also think that you came in here gunning for a fight today.

And lastly? I also think you are a fraud.

I think you might be a neurotic nut job but who's keeping tabs.

I am at work (you know where you make money to pay taxes); I will try to get the numbers for you soon.

OK, LL. We will be awaiting your pontification with baited breath. But really, a job?? So, does your employer know that you take his valuable time, for which you are compensated, and make silly posts on something that is not job related??

the Army will be somewhat over-strength in Year Groups 2004 through 2007 — composed mostly of lieutenants and junior CAPTAINS.

Historically, attrition for this cohort completing their service obligation has
averaged 8.5% annually with only slight year-to-year variances. An increase in
attrition among this cohort would certainly contribute to an officer shortage, and this
would seem plausible given the high operational tempo experienced by the Army
since 9/11, which some believe has a negative impact on retention in the military.
However, this does not appear to be the case. From 2001 through 2005, attrition for
this cohort averaged 7.8% and is projected at 8% for FY2006, all below the historical averages.

Source: CRS Report for Congress July 5, 2006

Note: I want to stress that "Senior Captains" are among the officers where numbers are short. I suspect the reporting has more to do with the anti-war ideology than it does actual strategic issues.

quote:

Originally posted by SLDO:
OK, LL. We will be awaiting your pontification with baited breath. But really, a job?? So, does your employer know that you take his valuable time, for which you are compensated, and make silly posts on something that is not job related??

Luckily for Lucky, that isn't likely.

quote:

ource: CRS Report for Congress July 5, 2006

A 2 year old report that you claim makes this Captain's comments erroneous?.

You would think that a guy who demands that he knows ("I Do") the answers in this "Realm" would also provide THE answer, almost immediately.

But the person who made the original claim said this: "But 8 of my 10 friends who are captains are leaving the army."

He never said "8 of 10 of ALL Captains", no he only said 8 of 10 of HIS FRIENDS who were also Captains.

Which makes your idiotic comments all the more useless, and obviously intended to start a hassle. Nothing more, nothing less.

From my experience in Vietnam, war is for the younger man. I was a 35 year old Master Sergeant who saw very little rank - I think our big air base at DaNang had all of three full Colonels, and about 6 E-9 Chiefs. Like this story, the younger officers and enlisted NCOs have to take much more responsibility. Of course, back then we had a very large military (regular/draft) and with very few exceptions, did people have to go back for more than one tour. I believe this story is very accurate - our present reduced military force, a combat force reduced even more by the grade structure, has to continually go back into combat, which appears to have no end; I would think it mandatory that we find some immediate and effective actions - draft or increased recruiting, to help solve the problem of wearing down our combat force. Money does not compensate for missed family and fear of death, regardless of how macho some say they are. I find it amazing that those telling our young officers and enlisted to suck it up are at home with their families and 50 inch television sets. This is a problem that needs immediate solving - it could have costly results for America to keep ignoring the problem - lack of personnel to maintain troop rotation. People smarter than me could outline those problems.

quote:

Originally posted by Lucky_Lieutenant:

quote:

Originally posted by Weatherguesser:

quote:

Originally posted by Lucky_Lieutenant:
Either MarineAuntie or Guesser know what the attrition rate of Army Captains were BEFORE the war?

I do, but I'd like to see if either of you can actually make truthful statements on the topic.

I think - you don't "know". I also think that you came in here gunning for a fight today.

And lastly? I also think you are a fraud.

I think you might be a neurotic nut job but who's keeping tabs.

I am at work (you know where you make money to pay taxes); I will try to get the numbers for you soon.

So in other words you are stealing from your employer, using his time and his equipment. Thats down right dishonest of you

He also had plenty of time to comment on "Hippies", "Global Warming", ":Ethanol" and "China", 12 times just this morning, but then he suddenly cannot find the time to comment on his previous claim that HE damn well knows THE facts??

If it weren't such an important issue, it might be funny.

quote:

Originally posted by woodyarn:

quote:

Originally posted by Lucky_Lieutenant:

quote:

Originally posted by Weatherguesser:

quote:

Originally posted by Lucky_Lieutenant:
Either MarineAuntie or Guesser know what the attrition rate of Army Captains were BEFORE the war?

I do, but I'd like to see if either of you can actually make truthful statements on the topic.

I think - you don't "know". I also think that you came in here gunning for a fight today.

And lastly? I also think you are a fraud.

I think you might be a neurotic nut job but who's keeping tabs.

I am at work (you know where you make money to pay taxes); I will try to get the numbers for you soon.

So in other words you are stealing from your employer, using his time and his equipment. Thats down right dishonest of you

You liberal loons are complete NUT JOBS!

I am self employed DOLT!

quote:

Originally posted by Weatherguesser:
He also had plenty of time to comment on "Hippies", "Global Warming", ":Ethanol" and "China", 12 times just this morning, but then he suddenly cannot find the time to comment on his previous claim that HE damn well knows THE facts??

If it weren't such an important issue, it might be funny.

Guesser, calm down... reach for your Prozac and orange juice cocktail and take a deep breath. I wasn't at work when I posted earlier this morning.

Then I worked for a while, and now I am taking a break.

BTW, I am self employed so I guess the only person I am stealing from is me.

As to historical numbers, in FY 1989, the attrition rate for captains (prior to eligibility for selection for major) was 6.69%. That percentage rose to 10.6% in FY99 with the bulk of the increase coming in the latter 3 years of the period. That rise was considered significant enough to prompt a number of studies. Here is one.

http://www.d-n-i.net/fcs/pdf/344_capt_attrition-Army.pdf

Harvard Business even did a bit of a study on it ... though you'll have to pay to read it.

http://harvardbusinessonline.hbsp.harvard.edu/b02/en/co...QBKE0YIISW?id=903126

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From 1989 to 1999, the Army watched as captain attrition rose from a planned and acceptable 6.7% to a staggering 10.6%. At the beginning of a new century, the Army leadership is concerned that current and projected staffing levels for junior officers are insufficient to accomplish the Army's mission. This case describes the career path for a U.S. Army officer, the human capital management systems that comprise the Officer Personnel Management System, the circumstances surrounding and contributing to junior officer attrition, and the steps the Army has taken to stem the outward flow of officers.

quote:

Originally posted by Weatherguesser:
A 2 year old report that you claim makes this Captain's comments erroneous?.

Got any newer data Einstein?

quote:

You would think that a guy who demands that he knows ("I Do") the answers in this "Realm" would also provide THE answer, almost immediately.

I knew the "Captain Conspiracy" was invalid because I attend monthly strength meetings that indicate how we track to Army wide numbers; GET IT?

quote:

But the person who made the original claim said this: "But 8 of my 10 friends who are captains are leaving the army."

He never said "8 of 10 of ALL Captains", no he only said 8 of 10 of HIS FRIENDS who were also Captains.

RIGHT! He was stating an opinion just like you, marineauntie, and the author. However you and the anti-bush anti-war ideologues use it to say "see the failed policies; we will lose for sure."

I simply pointed out the article was meaningless other than a few OPINIONS. I have now provided data that backs that up and you still don't believe it.

Blind faith... what a great way to validate an ideology... way to have an independent thought there guesser.