RE: http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,163383,00.html

This type of thing will always happen as long as people fight wars and there is no way to use electronic sensors on the weapons that are used to take out the enemy. As to the report that the Air Force and the Navy had "no such incidents", B***S**t. I have heard of Air Force taking out freindlies at least once and maybe more with wrong co-ordinates or faulty laser guidance. And also of the Navy sending in long range missles to the wrong targets. It matters not if the intel they got is wrong, it is still "friendly fire". The incidence on the ground is much more "forgivable" since when the rounds start flying, the object of the fire upon is trying to take cover and suppress that incoming, and in the case of those without the baptism of enemy fire, it is more apt to happen. It is a common problem with warfare and always has been. Troops out of place, freindlies in hostile areas by design of patrol unannounced or being "lost", but the most prevelant reason is communication between friendlies on the particular mission or those that may overlap, and that starts AT THE TOP. Of course, the NCOIC is the final authority on this type of communication and maintaining his troops' positions.
The difference between the Veteran of fire and the newbie is the initiated first ducks and covers and then looks for the point of the incoming. The newbie, even though trained different, usually RUNS for cover and fires at anything that moves or presents itself. This is the reason that the newbies should always be "herded" by a combat vet during their initial period of taking fire. He/She can control them much better than a Staff NCO with the stripes but no experience. The same reason the a good Line Officer is one that early on knows how to get his veteran Sr. NCOs' input on missions and the way to accomplish it, without relenquishing his command or respect of rank. The Lt. that thinks he knows best is usually the one that gets "popped" the first time out, and seldom has respect of his men before it happens.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: DEANEGILMOUR,

Well, ya know what they say about friendly fire....it ISNT

shiet happens the army and marine corp should just tell the truth there is always going to be a mistake made in the heat of battle. its inevitable. we can just help lower the chances with technology, and better training.

With all this technology and sophistication, fact remains that war is very dirty business. The act of butchering each other on the battlefield remains unchanged throughout all human history. The only thing that changes is the technology of the weapons involved. But whether you're using clubs and spears or laser-directed munitions and high-tech targeting systems, the essence of war itself remains unchanged. Try as we might, Murphy still shows up on the battlefield to remind us that no war is ever "perfect."

Crap happens and crap happens all the time when bullets and bombs are going off all around you. Bullets and bombs don't have eyes and they have no friends.

I really don't see any time in the near future of not having a casualty or casualties caused by friendly fire in and around the battle field, there will alway's be some mis communication, alot of confusion, and somebody being in the wrong place, once the bullet has left it's home it's not coming back no matter who is in front of it. Semper Fi jarhead7377

Well, if you're American.
I know, from working with Americans in Vietnam, that "Blue on Blue" was alway a possibility. It happened to me a number of times. Luckily no one was injured. They called it "recon by fire."
Even on exercizes in Australia the avoidable death & injury rate was abominable. (Amfibing on to a beach, discharging the troops, then driving over the top of 11 of them is avoidable.)
American troops seem to be all Gung Ho & no care. While this attitude persists, Blue on Blue will happen.

They have come a long way in the Army with Blue Force Tracking (Ground Asets).

It was reported that seeing the Blue Blob advancing gave a warm fuzzy to the SOF types that wre out there all by their lonesome, they knew when to tell the Armor Guys, 'Hey, you are coming up on out positionm so be carefule with your Target ID.'

Course, still have a problem telling the AF that the good guys are down there. Especially for Allies.

Ground-to-Air and Air-to-Ground still need some work. At the time I read the debriefs on what went wrong and it is not a simple problem, that and both sides had gotten out of practice dealing with each other. Work in Progress.

Friendly fire is just one of those things that happens when you put scared young men in a position where their life my be endangered at any moment. Ive presonally been friendly fired twice by marines, still confusced how they could mistake a HMMWV for anything else in broad daylight. and by an army convoy, but it was at night and we were rolling thru baghdad in black out drive, they started shooting at an ASV that was in front of my truck, then started pinging rounds off my truck.

quote:

Originally posted by oseles:
They have come a long way in the Army with Blue Force Tracking (Ground Asets).

It was reported that seeing the Blue Blob advancing gave a warm fuzzy to the SOF types that wre out there all by their lonesome, they knew when to tell the Armor Guys, 'Hey, you are coming up on out positionm so be carefule with your Target ID.'

Course, still have a problem telling the AF that the good guys are down there. Especially for Allies.

Ground-to-Air and Air-to-Ground still need some work. At the time I read the debriefs on what went wrong and it is not a simple problem, that and both sides had gotten out of practice dealing with each other. Work in Progress.

BFT does work good at times, but it can be used as a crutch, My squad leader would only use the BFT and one night rollin thru Baghdad all of our squads BFT's quit working, he had no idea where we were at, which isn't a good feeling at night in Baghdad.

"We've never really licked that problem," said retired Marine Lt. Gen. Robert Johnston."


Thats because it's never really been tried. Two things, better coordination, better communication. And stop with this acceptable loss crap. I guarantee you, the numbers will go down. In other words, change your attitude about it.

quote:

Originally posted by DEANEGILMOUR:
This type of thing will always happen as long as people fight wars and there is no way to use electronic sensors on the weapons that are used to take out the enemy. As to the report that the Air Force and the Navy had "no such incidents", B***S**t. I have heard of Air Force taking out freindlies at least once and maybe more with wrong co-ordinates or faulty laser guidance.

I think it was an Air National Guard pilot in an F-16 that was shown a few years back. He dropped a bomb on a suspected Iraqi artillery unit that actually was from Britain if I remember correctly.

The news clip was of the cockpit video and it was so sad to hear the pilot's conversation when someone told him he was hitting friendlies.

"I think I am going to be sick." was the last thing heard on the video.

Sad. I am sure he is really torn up about it.

Don

I was a new guy along with my two friends in Vietnam 5/25/67. We met in Oakland Replacement Depot. As have it we were all assigned to the same Platoon with 1st.Cav. Div.We all got the new guy jobs, Lt's RTO, Rifelman, and I was the M-60 Machine Gunner. July 31 1967 we were assigned to Mini Cav.( scout helicopters (OH-13)would seek out the enemy.A Platoon size element would be on stand-by at the main LZ with 5 Slicks and be inserted if the scouts found anything. They did. We were in thick costal scrub 90 mi. n/e of Saigon on the ooast.I was the trailing squad "in single file" when shots rang out to my left. We dropped to the ground. I opened fire with the muzzle inches off the ground. 100 rouds were expended when the Plt. Sgt. called cease fire. Nothing was said. We moved forward and proceeded to make a U-Turn to the left. At that time the point man came up to me and said I opened up on the front of the Plt..I screwed up. I asked if anyone was hit. He pointed down to where my buddy was lying with a hole in his cheek.I can't begin to tell you the shame and guilt the I felt from that moment and for 39 yrs to have it burn a hole in my brain.On the way back -sitting in the door of my slick-I had my first thought of suicide.The Capt. (CO)told me it was a VC that killed him and they thought it was a Mauser that shot him. That was my out. But I knew.I went on to become Plt. Sgt. months later.The "New Lt." and I didn't get one guy killed or wounded.We blew them up with everything and went out and picked up the peices.I wrote his Mother and told her what a brave soldier her son was.On April 2 2006 I contacted his family (his nepthew and brother and told them what accually happened, (after finally going to the VA and recieveing help with my PTSD that I was missdiagnosed and medicated and suffered greatly for those years)Thank God they forgave me and I finally forgave myself.Its called closeure of the ultimate kind.I was asamed of my military service until I was able to talk about it and found I had alot to be proud of. Things are alot better now. TO ALL MY COMRADES IN ARMS PLEASE DEAL WITH YOUR PTSD PROBLEM.THERE ARE TO MANY OF OUR BROTHERS HOMELESS ON THE STREETS. GET KARMA AND GET INVOLED WITH HELPING AND VOLUNTEER.GO TO "GUARDIAN SANCTUARY.ORG" GREAT CHARITY WITH HELP FOR SOLDIERS AND FIRST RESPONDERS.GOD BLESS AMERICA AND ALL OF OUR FALLEN HEROS FROM ALL THE WARS----SARGE

As a victim of "Friendly Fire" in Vietnam, I was never told the truth until I found out over 34 years later when I ran into a guy from my old unit. I checked the death records of the guys KIA that day and they all said "Homocide' not by forein troops. They told me and my family that I was wounded by mortar fire. I checked records for that day and not one mentioned any friendly fire. I was in the chopper with them and there were no mortars fired. I guess my point is that the military never wants to admit a mistake no matter what.They always have been and always will be. They wont do it unless they are forced to period. All the talk is just that,talk.

I am a victim of friendly fire/accidental discharge. I was the NCOIC out at the East Entry Control Point on LSA Anaconda when a soldier tried to load a M240B when they were not trained on it. We went red everyday before we sent a patrol outside the wire. This day was messed up and the people normally manning the machine gun were some where else. It ended my 27 carrier in the military and also changed the rest of my life.

Friendly-fire incidents happen to all armies engaged in sustained combat, the difference is the Yanks "sometimes" admit to the fact, whereas many other nations try to keep it more low key/hidden.

quote:

Originally posted by 21yrsUSCGUSCS:

quote:

Originally posted by DEANEGILMOUR:
This type of thing will always happen as long as people fight wars and there is no way to use electronic sensors on the weapons that are used to take out the enemy. As to the report that the Air Force and the Navy had "no such incidents", B***S**t. I have heard of Air Force taking out freindlies at least once and maybe more with wrong co-ordinates or faulty laser guidance.

I think it was an Air National Guard pilot in an F-16 that was shown a few years back. He dropped a bomb on a suspected Iraqi artillery unit that actually was from Britain if I remember correctly.

The news clip was of the cockpit video and it was so sad to hear the pilot's conversation when someone told him he was hitting friendlies.

"I think I am going to be sick." was the last thing heard on the video.

Sad. I am sure he is really torn up about it.

Don

I saw the video it was an A-10 hitting those light 3 person tanks the Brits have. Incredibly sad. I think we are entirely too dependent on technology and need to focus more time and money on live fire training. In my book, that's the best way to deal with friendly fire.

wtp--ever been in a large firefight/battle at night, bul;lets flying, mortars, rockets, helos, artillery all going off, both sides up close and personal?

Now, tell me again about friendly fire not happening???

quote:

Originally posted by diesel08:

quote:

Originally posted by oseles:
They have come a long way in the Army with Blue Force Tracking (Ground Asets).

It was reported that seeing the Blue Blob advancing gave a warm fuzzy to the SOF types that wre out there all by their lonesome, they knew when to tell the Armor Guys, 'Hey, you are coming up on out positionm so be carefule with your Target ID.'

Course, still have a problem telling the AF that the good guys are down there. Especially for Allies.

Ground-to-Air and Air-to-Ground still need some work. At the time I read the debriefs on what went wrong and it is not a simple problem, that and both sides had gotten out of practice dealing with each other. Work in Progress.

BFT does work good at times, but it can be used as a crutch, My squad leader would only use the BFT and one night rollin thru Baghdad all of our squads BFT's quit working, he had no idea where we were at, which isn't a good feeling at night in Baghdad.

FBCB2 (whether on the EPLRS or Satelite - BFT - backbone) is a Battle Command tool...like the map and compass before it. It is not designed to replace a Leader's understanding of where he is, where he is going and what he is doing. It is designed to assist in Situational Awareness by helping to answer some of these questions.
I'd be curious to know what kind of and how much training you and your Squad Leader had on the system. I have recently done a study that drew a direct link between incidents of fratricide and near-fratricide to a lack of training on the Army Battle Command Systems.