RE: http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,161855,00.html

Ounces = pounds and pounds = pain.

Is this anything new? Beltway warriors spending massive amounts of cash for hi-tech wizbangs that actual warriors dont need.

Looks like another Senator or Congressman got himself another side of bacon.

Forget the very important issue of carrying the extra 17 pounds for a moment (on the head, no less!). This concept is a prescription for disaster in a firefight...and much more so in a day-after-day grinding operation to take heavily-defended terrain.

The individual infantryman should never fight as individuals. They have to fight as teams of 6-12 men. At most, there should be one designated soldier to accompany each squad leader, who will carry this equipment and facilitate communication within the chain of command.

Somehow, the Training and Doctrine Command think that "improved situational awareness" will be a substitute for staying alert and staying alive. If a little cloud cover can disrupt the system, what would rain or snow do? or how about underground tunnels, building complexes, thick forests or steep canyons?

I fear that the Army assumes that the U.S.Air Force will always be there to break apart all the hard stuff, leaving the infantry to "mop up" and to control the rubble afterwards. Perhaps the battalion commanders have so much to do with so few men, that they have no option but to pretend that situational awareness will eliminate the need for holding forces in reserve and/or their capacity for contingency planning.

17 pounds is a lot more ammo that you could be carrying!

The thoughts behind the design of Land Warrior came from combat experienced Infantrymen of both Vienam era experience and Mogadishu, old Soldiers and young Rangers. If you note the early comments that it was great when doing combat operations, that is what it was designed to do. When you are just walking around checking if the garbage got collected, then you are carrying weight you would rather not have. However good technology is, it hasn't gotten perfect but it is getting better. The early comments when the unit was fighting was that the NCOs would rather leave their machine guns behind than their Land Warrior.

Once more the techies in the defense industry are making megabucks at the expense of the soldier.

We've seen this before in all the services - the trend towards "manning the equipment" rather than "equipping the man".

The folks in R&D and procurement never read history - the most mobile forces win...period.

Bogging our troopers down with all this technology adds to their burden, dulls their combat senses, detracts from situational awareness, gives them one more gadget to worry about...one more thing to break down. Bad enough to really NEED an earbud and boom or throat mike...all this other gear is just an extra rucksack full of rocks.

What the heck, as long as someone's makin' a buck, right?

17 extra lbs! Who comes up with this shite. Junk, junk and more junk.

quote:

The early comments when the unit was fighting was that the NCOs would rather leave their machine guns behind than their Land Warrior.

Got a link? I have never heard that.

Mike made an excellent point.One that was brought in the article while doing the combat operations it was well like and used .That does not invaliate some of the critism .It sounds like improvements are being made to the system .How long has the Army been working on the Land Warrior systems since the early 90's that I can rember .I am not sure that this is all about making a buck .

What I read in the text was, IT GETS YOU TO THE RIGHT PLACE AT THE RIGHT TIME. That's very important!
Having been a 'grunt', and an rto, to boot... you can get used to the added weight. If it can keep you alive, you love it!
Now they're making a lighter, smaller version, so what's the fuss??????

Well said, threerings.

Once upon a time, rifles were large, heavy, awkward, and unreliable.

Swami

This system has been apearing in Popular Mechanics and on television shows for the last decade. It still is obviously not suited to combat. Personally, I don't think a heads up display or a "gun that can shoot around corners" is necessary. What a peice of ****.

Land Warrior is an evolving system

The best way to test a new system is to see what works and doesn't work in the hands of the soldier.

Think about some of the capabilities they are talking about here:
- Know where all the members of your squad, platoon and adjacent units are. If he is on the other side of the wall and you know it, you are less likely to punch rounds through the wall with out checking.
- knowing where known bad guys are, even if you can't see them.
- Be able to look a block ahead and around the corner to see if someone is setting things up to ambush you.
- The ability to send a small (expendable) robot into the room first.
- The ability to have a robot inspect a car/suspicious pile/etc. for explosives.
- The ability of the guy in the rear (relatively) to see where all your people are before he provides fire support.
- The ability of Intel Analysts to review activities in a patrol area over days and weeks to see what has changed and/or is out of place.

Every new piece of equipment ever fielded to the military has been: too heavy; doesn’t do everything the soldier wants it to do; has capabilities that the soldier does not see the need for. These soldiers are getting debriefed on a daily basis on what they don’t like, what they do like, and what could be done to improve it.

As you noticed, they are already working to reduce the weight, redistribute the load, improve the capabilities, and the next striker unit will be going with the next generation. If you don’t know how the military R&D/procurement system works – that is happening at warp speed.

I never bothered to weigh everything I carried in Iraq...

1 IBA plate front and back
2 side plates
1 Shoulder DAP
1 throat and 1 groin protecter
1 camel back full of water
1 kevlar helmet
1 M-4
11 30 round mags
1 MRE
1 GPS
1 Man-pack radio system ( the new hand held one, every dismount in my unit had one, loved it)
Random maps, files, notebook, pens
Knife
Flash light
NVG's
Compass
gloves
various signal devices
smoke

I'm sure I'm forgetting a few things..but ya..I needed 17 more POUNDS...

Or pity my gunner who carried all that plus a 249... Of course he was a big ol kid from Tenn..he never complained once

quote:

Originally posted by foxred03:
This system has been apearing in Popular Mechanics and on television shows for the last decade. It still is obviously not suited to combat. Personally, I don't think a heads up display or a "gun that can shoot around corners" is necessary. What a peice of ****.

I dont know, the land warrior system looks like its improving. the entire LW system before weighed 40 pounds, thats not including your armor, weapon, and whatever kit you might be carrying.
I don't think a heads up display or a "gun that can shoot around corners"is necessary
I think that would be useful, ive never been to iraq/afghanistan or in a combat situation, but i'd rather stick my gun around the corner of a building than my head to check if its clear,
also what i am told about the computer and communication/hud systems is: it allows for easier planning and coordination between Armor/air/infantry units on the fly,
please! dont count the land warrior out just yet! Yes, it may have a few flaws, but not everything worked right the first time!! Just a little more tinkering and r&d couldnt hurt it

Army officials hope to field the so-called "next-gen" Land Warrior to a new Stryker unit set to deploy to Iraq when 4/9 leaves. But money to pay for the new system is tight.
VVVVVVV For the life of of me, I have never figured out why 'MONEY IS TIGHT'? MONEY & RELIGION is HUMAN created & can be changed at any time. I also get a CHUCKLE, out of 'MANDATORY REQUIREMENT' when governments are talking about doing things like, GLOBAL WARMING. Who do THEY think is going to ENFORCE these requirments? GOD? REX

the weight will come down.. Remember the first cell phones? The could be used as war-clubs in a pinch. The glitches will prob'ly be worked out as well. Some features may be cut as deemed unuseful. I like being able to look around corners w/o exposing your noggin. If the biggest gripe is carrying it to make 'courtesy calls', don't carry it.

If we're not careful the new land-warrior component of warfare will be injected directly into the soldier's own matrix using liquid-nanites.
And then people won't want to fight anymore after Googling terms like: "embryonic holography" & "synthetic telepathy". Then when the technocrats employ
their
new gear it won't weigh anything in physical poundage rather, moral pounds will weigh our team down more than a stack of tanks!