Of course it's illegal! It's torture. It's illegal, immoral and absolutely contrary to every value this country is supposed to stand for.
The United States prosecuted Japanese soldiers as criminals after WWII for using this technique on POWs as a Class B War Crime - they were sentenced to 30 years hard labor as War Criminals. It is a War Crime and those who employ it are War Criminals.
No mulling over it or posturing or speculating will change that. It is torture. It is criminal. It is against the law. We are a nation of laws...not Imperial Decrees.
Waterboarding was one of the charges against the Japanese at the war crimes trial in 1946. Link
Here are a few examples of the crimes, the verdicts and sentences:
quote:
The U.S. position on the use of "water treatment" as torture was indisputably clear. One judge was of the belief that the method was one of the most inhuman forms of barbarism ever devised. Japan's use of the technique as a tool of interrogation was very common and widespread. Details of the war crimes cases below can be found among hundreds more at the U.C. Berkeley War Crimes Study Center.
A U.S. Military Commission at Yokohama, Japan tried four Japanese defendants for torture and mistreatment of American and Allied prisoners at Fukoka Prisoner of War Branch Camp. Water torture was among the acts alleged in the specifications.
"Takeo Kita, did, willfully and unlawfully, brutally mistreat and torture Thomas B. Armitage, William O Cash and Munroe Dave Woodall, American Prisoners of War by beating them, forcing water into their mouths and noses, and by pressing lighted cigarettes against their bodies."
Not only were the perpetrators of the torture tried and convicted, their commanding officers met the same fate, even when there was no proof or witness testimony that they participated, because they didn't prevent the mistreatment of POWs by their enlisted men. Some officers who weren't even in command were punished for not doing anything to stop the abusive treatment.
In one case tried by a U.S. tribunal between Feb. 6-22, 1946 in Yokohama Japan, a physician named Shigeru Aona was charged with permitting his staff to commit "cruel and brutal atrocities" against POWs. Doctor Aona argued that the prisoners were in poor condition upon arriving at the camp, and denied any abuse or mistreatment. He also claimed that he was not responsible for the actions of soldiers of lower rank, which was the responsibility of the camp commander.
The Judge Advocate found it to be:
"...ridiculous to presume that an officer in the Japanese Army, or any other modern army, could not prevent the mistreatment of prisoners by his enlisted subordinates, or that he had no responsibility for their actions."
It was determined that Dr. Aona had the authority to restrict the behavior of subordinates, and did restrict their behavior occasionally, but these remedies were not pursued as a "general rule." He was found guilty under "command responsibility", and was sentenced to ten years at hard labor.
Staff Sergeant Kuniichi Araki was tried between June 12-18, 1946 in Yokohama. A member of the medical staff, he was charged with violation of the laws and customs of war, and committing cruel, inhuman and brutal acts, atrocities, and other offenses against Allied POWs. Specifically, he was accused of beatings and water torture. The prosecution presented 17 unsworn affidavits to support accusations that Araki's beating of a prisoner while in his sick bed, and forcing him to stand for roll call contributed to and accelerated his death. He was sentenced to be hanged by the neck until dead. The Judge Advocate stated that the law:
"...denied the right of anyone wrongfully to shorten the life of another no matter what the latter's life expectancy may be. Such action may be considered murder. 'The law declares that one who inflicts injury on another and thereby accelerates his death shall be held criminally responsible therefor.'"
In the 1946 trial of Sgt-Major Chinsaku Yuki in Manilla, a Filipino lawyer named Ramon Lavarro testified before a U.S. tribunal about the torture Yuki had inflicted on Lavarro and several other Philippine civilians. He described in particular the unbearable water torture he had endured. Lavarro was stripped and bound face-up on a bench.
The tribunal determined that it was torture, and sentenced him to life in prison.
In the case of 1st Lieutenant Saburo Matsumuro, water torture was listed as one of the charges against him. The other charges included beating with a bamboo club for an hour, and forcing POWs to sit on their ankles for an hour. The Judge Advocate, Lt. Col. Allan R. Browne, considered the water torture to be more cruel than the other violations, saying that charge:
"...includes the savage and barbarian water treatment and far exceeds in beastiality the 'run of the mine' brutality established in this case."
In light of this, how could we allow this form of torture today?
Sure. Frm the same article at the link I provided:
quote:
The U.S. position on the use of "water treatment" as torture was indisputably clear. One judge was of the belief that the method was one of the most inhuman forms of barbarism ever devised. Japan's use of the technique as a tool of interrogation was very common and widespread.
A U.S. Military Commission at Yokohama, Japan tried four Japanese defendants for torture and mistreatment of American and Allied prisoners at Fukoka Prisoner of War Branch Camp. Water torture was among the acts alleged in the specifications.
"Takeo Kita, did, willfully and unlawfully, brutally mistreat and torture Thomas B. Armitage, William O Cash and Munroe Dave Woodall, American Prisoners of War by beating them, forcing water into their mouths and noses, and by pressing lighted cigarettes against their bodies."
"He was turned upside down and water poured up his nose and beaten into unconsciousness."
"...they would lash me to a stretcher then prop me up against a table with my head down. They would then pour about two gallons of water from a pitcher into my nose and mouth until I lost consciousness..."
"...they laid me out on a stretcher and strapped me on. The stretcher was then stood on end with my head almost touching the floor and my feet in the air.... They then began pouring water over my face and at times it was almost impossible for me to breathe without sucking in water."
And:
quote:
Ramon Lavarro testified before a U.S. tribunal about the torture Yuki had inflicted on Lavarro and several other Philippine civilians. He described in particular the unbearable water torture he had endured.
Lavarro was stripped and bound face-up on a bench.
"Yuki placed some cloth on my face, and then with water from the faucet they poured on me until I became unconscious. He repeated that four or five times."[/qute]
From the transcript:
[quote]"COL KEELEY: You mean he brought water and poured water down your throat?
A: No sir, on my face, until I became unconscious. We were lying that way with some cloth on my face and then Yuki poured water on my face continuously.
COL KEELEY: And you couldn't breathe?
A: No, I could not and so I for a time lost consciousness. I found my consciousness came back again and found Yuki was sitting on my stomach and then I vomited the water from my stomach and the consciousness came back again for me.
Q: Where did the water come out when he sat on your stomach?
A: From my mouth and all openings of my face and then Yuki would repeat the same treatment and the same procedure to me until I became unconscious again.
Q: How many times did that happen?
A: Around four or five times from two o'clock up to four o'clock in the afternoon.When I was not able to endure his punishment which I received I told a lie to Yuki 'I could not really show anything to Yuki because I was really lying just to stop the torture'." [/b]
so... i see that for 4 years, 11 months, and ONE week we did everything possible to get information from them. we tortured and cajoled Suspected terrorists and got information that led us RIGHT to Iraq. based on the information coaxed out of these wonderful men and women we sent our boys to wars that they are still fighting (and many will be fighting till they day they die)
nahhh... our government is not capable of that.... the information we had on Iraq was above reproach, and unimpeachable!!!.
those WMD's were there!!!! really... i pinkie swear....
The infp that led us to Iraq from what we've been told came from our 'friends' the Israelis and Iraqi expatriates.. remember the mass celebrations in Dearborn MI after saddam was ousted? Not that they had an axe to grind or anything. They really haven't said much about the info they got from Khalid & Co. other than it helped stop terrorists and accounted for 25% of info gathered. Whatever t5he heck that means..
I have a much better way to garner intel/info from these moron/killers: Have them tied to a wicker chair, naked, with a hole in the bottom that allows their testicles to "hang" into the hole. Then, take a ball peen hammer and "ring" the "bells," GENTLY AT FIRST, and then progressive "bongs" until the subject sings like a bird. I have not tried this technique but it could be better than waterboarding. I'm starting to talk to myself just thinking about it.
yea as it is we are the only nation that does not use turture and has made such a stink about it.... if it is illegal then wqe are the only ones that think so and our troops are being treated a lot worse then waterboarding... hell if you or i am ever kidnapped by terrorist you better pray that waterboarding is the only thing they do to you....other countries will just stick you wiith a hot iron or just cut your head off...
Make the afternoon uncomfortable for one terrorist or sacrifice the lives of thousands of innocents that will unwittingly become the victims of the terrorist?
Torture, in an of itself is dispicable - but in the big scheme of things, if we do not continue to prosecute these animals in any way possible, there will be many more 9-11's.
Perhaps the libs wouldn't feel so bad about "Ringin the Bells".
Yeah chastisment and attraction don't work well w/o the chastisement. If someone wants to step outside the box provided by gov't and international convention why should we extend the rights provided by those associations? further, what reason would he have to re enter the box if he's already getting all the benefits of membership?as well as the inherent advantages of operating outside the law? Spurn the law, spurn its protection.
the ticking time bomb scenario is a myth, it has never happened, it will never happen.
if you get captured by terrorists/ guerrillas/ 12 year olds with ak 47's, you damn well better hope that they are under the "fantasy" that they will be treated humanely if they are captured/turn themselves in/turn on their buddies and bring you back to safety cause that is the ONLY thing that will let your liable *** walk out the door when they get tired of having you around.
The only thing that will keep you alive is how effed up on something they are at the time and if they have a video tape handy, they don't give a damn about international law or who signed what.
yeah, same with the governor that signs the death warrant, its a big struggle that they take very seriously- but whats that have to do with what I said?
Originally posted by godawgz: Could you provide a more detailed description of the 'water treatment'?
Yep, I saw this used before. Water treatment & waterboarding are two different animals. Plus, I sure wish those members of Congress who saw water boarding & said ok to it a few years ago, what made them change their minds. I mean other then the usual BS political games common to Washington.
