RE: http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,161264,00.html

It should not be surprising that U.S. forces will mistake jihadis, whose loyalty have recently been bought, with jihadis who haven't accepted the offers. They look the same certainly; and some have them have just as certainly fought against Americans in the past.

There were never more than several hundred foreign fighters in Iraq. With the Sunnis turned against the foreigners, we should just let the Iraqis settle their score themselves; and stay out of the way. I feel that U.S. forces in Iraq are now looking for something to do.

be very careful.. our target audience doesn't differentiate between friendly fire and detonating disabled people...

quote:

Originally posted by AGBrina:
RE: http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,161264,00.html

It should not be surprising that U.S. forces will mistake jihadis, whose loyalty have recently been bought, with jihadis who haven't accepted the offers. They look the same certainly; and some have them have just as certainly fought against Americans in the past.

There were never more than several hundred foreign fighters in Iraq. With the Sunnis turned against the foreigners, we should just let the Iraqis settle their score themselves; and stay out of the way. I feel that U.S. forces in Iraq are now looking for something to do.

Would you agree that the vast majority of Iraqi's aren't the ones running around killing people? Its tricky situation because if we left the Iraqi's "settle their own scores" many innocent people would be killed in the process. Considering we went in to free innocent people from being killed it would really make us being in Iraq "all for nothing".

Do I think its fair we get caught in the middle? Certainly not. But if we let it go another murderous regime will come to power and then we'll be facing the same issues again. I have no problem if they want to fight it out, its just I'd feel better if the innocent person had some means of protection.

quote:

Originally posted by AGBrina:
RE: http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,161264,00.html

It should not be surprising that U.S. forces will mistake jihadis, whose loyalty have recently been bought, with jihadis who haven't accepted the offers. They look the same certainly; and some have them have just as certainly fought against Americans in the past.

There were never more than several hundred foreign fighters in Iraq. With the Sunnis turned against the foreigners, we should just let the Iraqis settle their score themselves; and stay out of the way. I feel that U.S. forces in Iraq are now looking for something to do.

For someone who at times appears intelligent in your posts (even though I disagree with almost everything you say), this one was extremely ignorant for someone who is not currently in Iraq to know exactly what US forces are doing.

The Coalition forces are not just "looking for something to do." They are trying to push AQI out of the last safe havens they have. They are working hand in hand with the ISF to secure those areas. This is a well thought out process. They are not just going around willy nilly to find work.

We are trying to let the Iraqis defend themselves, but they are not yet ready to take the lead in all of the provinces. In those provinces where they have demonstrated that capability, they are in the lead. We learned a couple of years ago that handing the security over to the Iraqis before they are ready is a bad policy.

SCOUTS OUT!

HOOAH RCcav!!! I agree that people who aren't in Iraq should shut up. Too many armchair commanders out there. The proven method is taking the actions that the Commanders on the ground and in the mix recommend. All this supposition by sillyvilians is really um silly.

OUT FRONT!

quote:

Originally posted by PB19D:
HOOAH RCcav!!! I agree that people who aren't in Iraq should shut up. Too many armchair commanders out there. The proven method is taking the actions that the Commanders on the ground and in the mix recommend. All this supposition by sillyvilians is really um silly.

OUT FRONT!

Thank you for your support, but I don't necessarily think they need to shut up. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but to make assertions about current operations going on in theater without ever having been there, never mind not being there now, is just irresponsible.

I think, if you look at enough sources to get a balanced perspective on the overall status of the war in Iraq, not only are you entitled to your opinion, but intelligent debate is necessary. That is one of the things that is so good about our country. That is not, however, what AGBrina was doing in his post. He was making an assertion without any facts to back it up. The only way to have knowledge on current operations is to be in theater.

SCOUTS OUT!

quote:

The only way to have knowledge on current operations is to be in theater.

Ha. A message meant for Congress if I ever saw one.

quote:

Thank you for your support, but I don't necessarily think they need to shut up. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but to make assertions about current operations going on in theater without ever having been there, never mind not being there now, is just irresponsible.

I think, if you look at enough sources to get a balanced perspective on the overall status of the war in Iraq, not only are you entitled to your opinion, but intelligent debate is necessary. That is one of the things that is so good about our country. That is not, however, what AGBrina was doing in his post. He was making an assertion without any facts to back it up. The only way to have knowledge on current operations is to be in theater.

SCOUTS OUT!

wow finally a person understanding this is America and any and all have an opinion,
PB19D you do want this country to remain with freedom of speech, sure there are arm chair quarter backs, and if you will stop and take a deep breath , you will realize these are opinions only. I never served in Iraq ( my grandson on second tour) But I did give four years to my country , which I believe gives me the right to post an opinion,right or wrong it is debatable, nothing set in concrete.
But back to this subject, I will give the military less then two weeks to charge some soldiers or marines, for this mistake in killing the civilians, seems it is a policy to sacrifice a lamb to keep those people happy, we gave in before to them and I see us doing it again.

I sure wish this mistake hadn't been made. However I think admitting it happened early as opposed to trying to cover it up will pay off in the long run. It is unfortunate these things happen and I hope the victims families can accept our condolences and not aid or abet AQI.

That's the hope all along. In a side by side comparison 4 out of 5 Iraqis.. I've not been this go 'round. I was in GWI and only met surrendering Iraqi soldiers and Shi'ite civillians who seemed glad we were there. From stateside it looks like we've made great progress in winning over the population. Seems like for a time we were too timid, then too aggressive, then just about right. But I jump at every shadow, afraid we'll have a setback.

quote:

Originally posted by RCcav:

quote:

Originally posted by AGBrina:
RE: http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,161264,00.html

It should not be surprising that U.S. forces will mistake jihadis, whose loyalty have recently been bought, with jihadis who haven't accepted the offers. They look the same certainly; and some have them have just as certainly fought against Americans in the past.

There were never more than several hundred foreign fighters in Iraq. With the Sunnis turned against the foreigners, we should just let the Iraqis settle their score themselves; and stay out of the way. I feel that U.S. forces in Iraq are now looking for something to do.

For someone who at times appears intelligent in your posts (even though I disagree with almost everything you say), this one was extremely ignorant for someone who is not currently in Iraq to know exactly what US forces are doing.

The Coalition forces are not just "looking for something to do." They are trying to push AQI out of the last safe havens they have. They are working hand in hand with the ISF to secure those areas. This is a well thought out process. They are not just going around willy nilly to find work.

We are trying to let the Iraqis defend themselves, but they are not yet ready to take the lead in all of the provinces. In those provinces where they have demonstrated that capability, they are in the lead. We learned a couple of years ago that handing the security over to the Iraqis before they are ready is a bad policy.

SCOUTS OUT!

"This is a well thought out process" I have no doubt, but thats not the problem, the problem is with execution, something went wrong some where and nine civilians were killed, better Communication/coordination with Iraqi forces might help. As for as them not being ready to take the lead, I think they are more than ready, why? It's their country and there no doubt in my mind that they know the terrain and cities better than we do, it would be wise to use that. If they break and run....well thats another ball game.

I'll probably shut up right after hell freezes over or some snot nosed youngin shuts me up course I might shut that youngin up before he shuts me up, course ya never what might happen cause some times I get meaner than a bucket of snakes and might shut everybody up!

Surrender. It's the only good Liberal thing to do.

quote:

"This is a well thought out process" I have no doubt, but thats not the problem, the problem is with execution, something went wrong some where and nine civilians were killed, better Communication/coordination with Iraqi forces might help. As for as them not being ready to take the lead, I think they are more than ready, why? It's their country and there no doubt in my mind that they know the terrain and cities better than we do, it would be wise to use that. If they break and run....well thats another ball game.

Better coordination and communication with Iraqi forces would help? You have obviously never been there and witnessed what they call communication and coordination. Not trying to be mean, just honest. Yes, it is getting better but by no means good. You are thinking of their military like our military - and that is wrong.

yeah, whats the deal with that? I heard a report a couple o months ago about how they were using cell phones and othe unsecured lines to relay tactical info and commands.. I remember spending like 2 days in basic learning to use the old PRC 77... Surely they're not running short of 'Pricks' over there..

quote:

Originally posted by Persy:

quote:

"This is a well thought out process" I have no doubt, but thats not the problem, the problem is with execution, something went wrong some where and nine civilians were killed, better Communication/coordination with Iraqi forces might help. As for as them not being ready to take the lead, I think they are more than ready, why? It's their country and there no doubt in my mind that they know the terrain and cities better than we do, it would be wise to use that. If they break and run....well thats another ball game.

Better coordination and communication with Iraqi forces would help? You have obviously never been there and witnessed what they call communication and coordination. Not trying to be mean, just honest. Yes, it is getting better but by no means good. You are thinking of their military like our military - and that is wrong.

I think you hit the nail on the head. Many Americans view not only the military, but the Iraqi people and government in terms of our own as well. They are completely different having been ruled by authoritarian despots for generations with little or no education for a large part of the population who have been living much as their ancestors did hundreds or even thousands of years ago. To expect them to evolve into a full fledged, democratically led society overnight without major support from the free world for many years is ludicrous. Look how long it took our own nation to stand on its own, and not withstanding current relations, thank goodness the French were there to prop us up and cover our flank.

This photo from Uruknet ( Layla Anwar's blog) is purported to be related to the incident. Anybody know anything more about it?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080204/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_civilians_killed

http://uruknet.info/?p=m40832&hd=&size=1&l=e

quote:

Originally posted by popsiq:


This photo from Uruknet ( Layla Anwar's blog) is purported to be related to the incident. Anybody know anything more about it?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080204/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_civilians_killed

http://uruknet.info/?p=m40832&hd=&size=1&l=e

A quick look at the photo and the American GI's standing there wearing there DCU's will tell you its an old photo.

GRAYMAN

The picture is titled 4febfalluja.jpg

Good post. Unfortunately all too often there are those here who have never worked with Iraqis and somehow miss the complexities of the situation. Aside from communication there is also a language barrier. The military does not just have thousands of Terps available whenever they are needed, and many Iraqis do not speak English.

It's too bad that they were kileld, but since none of us were there who knows exactly what went wrong. There is a war going and things like this happen. Hell we still have fratricide occuring within our own military and with Coalition forces so why would one think it's not going to happen when dealing with Iraqis?

I have heard many people say that "just because you were/ are there" doesn't mean that you know more about the situation than someone else. Well that may be true to a point, but most of us know a hell of a lot more than those who are comfortable at Ft. Livingroom and have never been here once, not even for a day.

quote:

Originally posted by Persy:

quote:

"This is a well thought out process" I have no doubt, but thats not the problem, the problem is with execution, something went wrong some where and nine civilians were killed, better Communication/coordination with Iraqi forces might help. As for as them not being ready to take the lead, I think they are more than ready, why? It's their country and there no doubt in my mind that they know the terrain and cities better than we do, it would be wise to use that. If they break and run....well thats another ball game.

Better coordination and communication with Iraqi forces would help? You have obviously never been there and witnessed what they call communication and coordination. Not trying to be mean, just honest. Yes, it is getting better but by no means good. You are thinking of their military like our military - and that is wrong.