This issue has nothing to do with weapons and bibles- it has everything to do with our impression to moderate Muslims. The Al Qaeda types go around telling people that American is on a crusade, and that it is their moral imperative and religious duty to resist. It seems pretty hard to deny those lies when we post pictures of troops with the Bible, and have outreach programs with the words Christian and Crusade in them. Religion is an important part of American life, but strategically we need to be aware of how our actions effects the will of the enemy.
Yep, the image of young men with uniformly shaved heads holding bibles and rifles does come across as 'cultish'. I am a proud methodist and will not deny my faith, but this war is in large part a PR campaign and image must be managed carefully. Our media already does enough to undermine the effort, we don't need to do more.
jsut another story on how muslims can do what they want (preach, proclaim, Lalalalalalala!) while the, christan gets shot down for doing smilar. you can't step on "minority" / muslim / any other oddball rights but you can deny any christan items (christmas, decorations, halloween...) without batting an eye.
muhammed preached tolerance for 'people of the Book' which means Jews and Christians. In fact the Koran is s'posed to be an unadulterated 'refurbished' version of both testaments. Of course interpretations of it have been twisted. Muhammed after all lived BEFORE the Crusades. This is about not sending our troops to the ME w/ imagery reminiscent of the Knights Templar.
if the army is requiring them to take rifles to church, even after taking the pics off and the website down, then wh;y do they care if there are pictures? they can even hold up a banner and say "islamic terrorists, we are coming for you!" WTF! political correctness can kiss my azz!
Let's not forget just who we are fighting for, God and country. These people are trying to take both away from us. That why I can't vote for someone who won't pledge allegiance or salute the flag of this great country, for who so many fought and gave their lives for. The fore fathers created this nation on the believe of God and the 10 commandments. And said that if the people of this country lose sight of these beliefs, this country will not stand. Look it up there are dozens of quotes on God and country by all who signed the Declaration of Independence.
Once again, timidity toward offending the enemy has taken priority over reason and reality. I can assure you that while in Iraq, we carried our weapons everywhere; the chow hall, laundry, medical, and yes, church services and evening Bible studies for those of us who went. This might come as a shock to some in the World of Political Correctness, but more than a few Iraqis sat in on church services and none of them showed any concern with armed Americans who sat in the same room. If anything, I’ve noticed that many Muslims are quick to note the Abrahamic connection with their beliefs and Christianity, though they take it in a completely opposite direction upon Abraham’s death.
Being armed at all times is reality for troops in training here in the U.S. too, in and out of church; whether it is Parris Island, San Diego, Fort Jackson, or any of the other recruit training depots, commands, or centers. al-Qaida could certainly care less whether or not our troops read the Bible and go to services, armed or unarmed. al-Qaida never brought up the issue; to my knowledge, no other Islamic group brought up the issue either, perhaps it was someone in the World of Political Correctness that has an issue with guns and Bibles in general. The sight of a Bible in a trooper’s hand probably does not offend Muslims as much as an outward and vocal Atheist or Pagan. On the subject of weapons; they are not as controversial in the Middle East as they have become in the Western World. Perhaps the same could be said of Bibles.
Congratulations to Reverend Frank Bussey and his organization for their fine work.
The US Army, in all its infinite wisdom has never figured out the hypocrisy of ending Sunday services with "Go in peace, and may peace be with you... don't forget to pick up your weapons..."
In Iraq, that's exactly what the chaplains said. But who could expect much from padres who, while the invasion was still underway, organized and executed weekly bus tours to Babylon from the Baghdad palace at EXACTLY the same time and day of week each week.
What is truly laughable (if it weren't so much evidence of a lobotomy requirement for command in the US Army) is that we check our weapons in to be watched to do physical training...which is when we should be carrying weapons so we workout like we would in combat... and leave them with armed guards but we DON'T use any such procedure to check them in to our most holy places...as seen by the eyes of the world...which are our 'temples'.
Who outside our nation cannot help but think we are waging (yet another) crusade?
The doctrine of 'you shall have your weapons at all times EXCEPT during PT' should absolutely be changed to '...except while worshipping your true God...' ...not only for the respect due God, but to our political signals heard round the world.
Frankly, the truism that 'you are promoted to your highest level of in competency' rings true also for our Army.
We can only pray to our God and hold up our rifles that Gen Petraeus is not promoted even though they'd like to...
Ask a couple of intelligent questions before reacting to the story.
Can't they stack arms before the picture is taken? If not, then why must a command policy such as this one be so absolute? Do they take their weapons with them in the shower? What does the weapon have to do with Bible study?
It seems to me that these young soldiers are being used as pawns for the furthering of someone else's agenda. Whether it's pro or anti-religion, it's the same type of self-serving manipulation of an ideal. Maybe not the same pew as Bani Sadr and Bin Ladin, but it's at least in the back of the church.
Why use these young soldiers as propaganda in the first place?
I have mixed feelings about the picture. Being a minister and having a son in the National Guard who has served in Iraq, here are my insights.
I do not like at all where the upper eschelon is headed with regard to Christianity and the military. Mikey Weinstein is simply in the camp of the ACLU who have done more to erode from the American landescape any vestiges of our Christian heritage.
It is wrong for the government to regulate the religious practices in the military that they do.
Not long ago, I had a very serious issue with one of the moderators over these articles - a serious enough issue that I took it to those in charge of military.com complaining that some moderators here are aggressively seeking to have nothing said negatively about Islam. One moderator shut the discussion down simply because some were saying Islam advances its goals by violence, even quoting from the Koran.
I vehemently complained to military.com that these attempts by some moderators were not only anti-Christian and pro Islamic, but anti-American.
Hence, I am very sensitive about these things, and the growing policy of this government to rid itself of a true Christian heritage.
Having said that, the picture of the soldiers with their Bibles and simultaneously with their rifles does convey something similar to Muslims touting the Koran with their weapons. We know Islam advances their religion by violence, but Christianity does not in the same way. This does not mean that Christianity is pacifist in any regard. It simply means we don't spead the faith by the sword "now rifles and bombs."
I would be curious if the Army would have raised a stink if this minister's website simply showed soldiers holding up their Bibles on way to chapel? That picture would be a great one, and if that is offensive, then God help us for having betrayed Christ for the sake of political purposes.
As a minister who lives in a city with two major naval bases, I have long been grieved at the policies of the U.S. government regarding the chaplaincy, etc.
Originally posted by Cleatus45: jsut another story on how muslims can do what they want (preach, proclaim, Lalalalalalala!) while the, christan gets shot down for doing smilar. you can't step on "minority" / muslim / any other oddball rights but you can deny any christan items (christmas, decorations, halloween...) without batting an eye.
Perhaps; within "Our Strategy;" we ought to get "our media" to EMPHASIZE that our enemies don't have the desire to live peacefully with other religions. With or without the Koran and their weapons; they profess their hate-filled rhetoric about Christians and Americans!
- "We -- with Allah's help -- call on every Muslim who believes in Allah and wishes to be rewarded to comply with Allah's order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it. We also call on Muslim ulema, leaders, youths, and soldiers to launch the raid on Satan's U.S. troops and the devil's supporters allying with them, and to displace those who are behind them so that they may learn a lesson." - World Islamic Front Statement
- "I now address my speech to the whole of the Islamic nation: Listen and understand. The issue is big and the misfortune is momentous. The most important and serious issue today for the whole world is this Third World War, which the Crusader-Zionist coalition began against the Islamic nation. It is raging in the land of the two rivers. The world's millstone and pillar is in Baghdad, the capital of the caliphate" - OBL
- "(May 5, 07) In a new Internet video, Osama bin Laden's second-in-command jeers at the Iraq war funding bill vetoed by President George W. Bush that called for a U.S. troop pullout in Iraq, ABC News said on Saturday.
"This bill will deprive us of the opportunity to destroy the American forces which we have caught in a historic trap," al Qaeda deputy leader Ayman al-Zawahri is quoted as saying on ABC's Web site, http://abcnews.go.com/.
"We ask Allah that they only get out of it after losing 200,000 to 300,000 killed, in order that we give the spillers of blood in Washington and Europe an unforgettable lesson," Zawahri says.
- [I]"The consequences of failure are clear: Radical Islamic extremists would grow in strength and gain new recruits. They would be in a better position to topple moderate governments, create chaos in the region, and use oil revenues to fund their ambitions. Iran would be emboldened in its pursuit of nuclear weapons. Our enemies would have a safe haven from which to plan and launch attacks on the American people. On September the 11th, 2001, we saw what a refuge for extremists on the other side of the world could bring to the streets of our own cities. For the safety of our people, America must succeed in Iraq." --President G.W. Bush, January 10, 2007
BUT; our liberal Main Stream Media are "too damm busy finding criticism" of America's young Noble Warriors holding a bible and a rifle!
And, our media -- damm sure doesn't understanded the need for unbiased reporting! Or equality in reporting of matters that might benefit the United States!
As a followup to the above, a search of the Federalist Papers shows that the words "Guns" and "Bible" appear nowhere.
The word "Prayer" appears exactly once, and that in a secular sense:
quote:
It has until lately been a received and uncontradicted opinion that the prosperity of the people of America depended on their continuing firmly united, and the wishes, prayers, and efforts of our best and wisest citizens have been constantly directed to that object.
There is in fact, no religious rhetoric whatsoever, anywhere in the Federalist Papers. Instead, there are only arguments that the government should strictly distance itself from any and all religious issues.
Folks who say America was founded on "guns, bibles, and prayer" are IMHO expressing their own religious fantasies, which historically speaking, are wrong on the facts.
There are many reasons why the Army rightfully requested this site/pic be taken down. Some reasons have already been stated as in we need to battle this public relations war better, but my question is, isn't the picture a hypocritical gesture to the words of Jesus of "love and peace?" And don't forgot the commandment - Thou Shall Not Kill
Outstanding post WesLemmon. It doesn't matter to al-Qaida what beliefs their enemies have; whether athiest Soviet troops in Afganhistan in the 1980's, or American troops, some of whom profess in the Christian faith while in Iraq and elsewhere. Jihadists will always tout their "Zionist-Crusader" propaganda and hype regardless of our faith.
