RE: http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,161130,00.html

So we have a 17 year old who tries to kill our soldiers and som weapy eyed liberals want to treat him with kid gloves. ( maybe give him a time out). Might I remind you folks that some of our soldiers are about the same age, and they are dieing just like older troops. Take this SOB and treat him just like any other Enemy Combatant.Matter of fact just shoot his as- and let Allah figure out what to do with him. Maybe get him la---. up in heaven. If he want so be a Martyer, then we should help him out,right is right.

So he was 17? There are 17 year olds and younger who are tried as adults and serving adult sentences in the US right now. How is he any different?

If he is old enought to throw a grenade and try to kill out troops, then he is old enought to go to trial and be accountable for it....

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Originally posted by 12520504:
So he was 17? There are 17 year olds and younger who are tried as adults and serving adult sentences in the US right now. How is he any different?

The US had incarcerated and sentenced to death more children than all other nations put together. Yeah! #1! About 160 on death row right now, really something to be proud of.

In the US a judge can established whether a child can be tried as an adult regardless of his or her age. So why treat this individual any differnt. HANG HIM

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Originally posted by Grandjester:

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Originally posted by 12520504:
So he was 17? There are 17 year olds and younger who are tried as adults and serving adult sentences in the US right now. How is he any different?

The US had incarcerated and sentenced to death more children than all other nations put together. Yeah! #1! About 160 on death row right now, really something to be proud of.

Oh?

CNN Washington Bureau (March 1,2005)

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WASHINGTON (CNN) -- In a ruling that marked a change in "national standards," a divided Supreme Court Tuesday ruled that the execution of juvenile killers is unconstitutional.
.
.
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The ruling means the death sentences of some 70 death row inmates who were under 18 at the time of their crimes will be invalid. States in the future will not be allowed to seek the death penalty for minors.

Grandjester, Those kids aren't there for being honor students and outstanding members of our communities. What they have done is so awful that they should be there. Society should be protected from them.

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Originally posted by Jade_Gate:

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Originally posted by Grandjester:

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Originally posted by 12520504:
So he was 17? There are 17 year olds and younger who are tried as adults and serving adult sentences in the US right now. How is he any different?

The US had incarcerated and sentenced to death more children than all other nations put together. Yeah! #1! About 160 on death row right now, really something to be proud of.

Oh?

CNN Washington Bureau (March 1,2005)

quote:

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- In a ruling that marked a change in "national standards," a divided Supreme Court Tuesday ruled that the execution of juvenile killers is unconstitutional.
.
.
.
The ruling means the death sentences of some 70 death row inmates who were under 18 at the time of their crimes will be invalid. States in the future will not be allowed to seek the death penalty for minors.

Let's see there Jade, 160-70=90. STILL the most. So despite your histronics, I am STILL correct. Sorry.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Grandjester,

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Originally posted by Grandjester:

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Originally posted by Jade_Gate:

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Originally posted by Grandjester:

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Originally posted by 12520504:
So he was 17? There are 17 year olds and younger who are tried as adults and serving adult sentences in the US right now. How is he any different?

The US had incarcerated and sentenced to death more children than all other nations put together. Yeah! #1! About 160 on death row right now, really something to be proud of.

Oh?

CNN Washington Bureau (March 1,2005)

quote:

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- In a ruling that marked a change in "national standards," a divided Supreme Court Tuesday ruled that the execution of juvenile killers is unconstitutional.
.
.
.
The ruling means the death sentences of some 70 death row inmates who were under 18 at the time of their crimes will be invalid. States in the future will not be allowed to seek the death penalty for minors.

Let's see there Jade, 160-70=110. STILL the most. So despite your histronics, I am STILL correct. Sorry.

You are still wrong ... there are no children on death row. No histrionics involved ... simply factual accuracy. You may want to note the date of the article ... 2005. By the way, your math is about as weak as your reading comprehension ... 160 - 70 = 90, not 110.

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Originally posted by Jade_Gate:

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Originally posted by Grandjester:

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Originally posted by Jade_Gate:

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Originally posted by Grandjester:

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Originally posted by 12520504:
So he was 17? There are 17 year olds and younger who are tried as adults and serving adult sentences in the US right now. How is he any different?

The US had incarcerated and sentenced to death more children than all other nations put together. Yeah! #1! About 160 on death row right now, really something to be proud of.

Oh?

CNN Washington Bureau (March 1,2005)

quote:

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- In a ruling that marked a change in "national standards," a divided Supreme Court Tuesday ruled that the execution of juvenile killers is unconstitutional.
.
.
.
The ruling means the death sentences of some 70 death row inmates who were under 18 at the time of their crimes will be invalid. States in the future will not be allowed to seek the death penalty for minors.

Let's see there Jade, 160-70=110. STILL the most. So despite your histronics, I am STILL correct. Sorry.

You are still wrong ... there are no children on death row. No histrionics involved ... simply factual accuracy. You may want to note the date of the article ... 2005. By the way, your math is about as weak as your reading comprehension ... 160 - 70 = 90, not 110.

It's early here, sorry. My info was also from 2005, but may be outdated. We do still incarcerate more children that any other nation, do we not?

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Originally posted by Grandjester:

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Originally posted by 12520504:
So he was 17? There are 17 year olds and younger who are tried as adults and serving adult sentences in the US right now. How is he any different?

The US had incarcerated and sentenced to death more children than all other nations put together. Yeah! #1! About 160 on death row right now, really something to be proud of.

Yep, those death sentences should be overturned, just like the death senences for these kids' victims.

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It's early here, sorry. My info was also from 2005, but may be outdated. We do still incarcerate more children that any other nation, do we not?

Fair enough and I understand "early". I assure you your information IS outdated and I don't know where your 160 came from. In 2004, according to Amnesty International:

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As of January 2004, more than 70 juvenile offenders sat on death rows throughout the United States; this constitutes approximately 2% of the total death row population.

In 2005, at the time of the Supreme Court ruling, we had about the same number that were immediately removed from death row (see my previous post). (Though the Supreme Court ruled in 2005, there were NO "child" executions after 2003)

Here is an article from Human Rights News that you may find of interest on the Supreme Court decision.

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The Supreme Court's 5-4 ruling in Roper v. Simmons will affect more than 70 juvenile offenders on death row in 12 states. The effort to ban the execution of juvenile offenders has led in recent years to its abolition by 19 states and the federal government; and the introduction of legislation to end the sentence in at least a half-dozen more states. Another 12 states do not permit capital punishment in any circumstances.

I don't know how we stack up on incarcerating child offenders. Depends a bit on whether you count those tried as adults AND those tried as children ... and what constitutes "incarcerated" (for example, do we count juvenile homes?).

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Originally posted by Jade_Gate:

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Originally posted by Grandjester:

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Originally posted by Jade_Gate:

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Originally posted by Grandjester:

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Originally posted by 12520504:
So he was 17? There are 17 year olds and younger who are tried as adults and serving adult sentences in the US right now. How is he any different?

The US had incarcerated and sentenced to death more children than all other nations put together. Yeah! #1! About 160 on death row right now, really something to be proud of.

Oh?

CNN Washington Bureau (March 1,2005)

quote:

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- In a ruling that marked a change in "national standards," a divided Supreme Court Tuesday ruled that the execution of juvenile killers is unconstitutional.
.
.
.
The ruling means the death sentences of some 70 death row inmates who were under 18 at the time of their crimes will be invalid. States in the future will not be allowed to seek the death penalty for minors.

Let's see there Jade, 160-70=110. STILL the most. So despite your histronics, I am STILL correct. Sorry.

You are still wrong ... there are no children on death row. No histrionics involved ... simply factual accuracy. You may want to note the date of the article ... 2005. By the way, your math is about as weak as your reading comprehension ... 160 - 70 = 90, not 110.

Coming back after a jolt of caffine, I realized that I am correct Jade. Those kids were most certainly incarcerated and sentenced exactly as I said. You have parsed by pointing out a subsequent SCOTUS ruling that overturned the Death Penalty, which is of course, totally different. My initial point is still vaild.

Bad google apparently, had gone to Amnesty and found the 70 number from '04 since then.

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Coming back after a jolt of caffine, I realized that I am correct Jade. Those kids were most certainly incarcerated and sentenced exactly as I said. You have parsed by pointing out a subsequent SCOTUS ruling that overturned the Death Penalty, which is of course, totally different. My initial point is still vaild.

Your original statement (that I emboldened and challenged) was:

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Yeah! #1! About 160 on death row right now, really something to be proud of.

There are zip, nada, zilch, zero on death row right now. All of them were taken off death row in 2005 by the Supreme Court decision. You are still wrong. Maybe spiking your caffeine would help?

What we should be proud of is standing up to the plate in 2005 and joining the international community (even though the SCOTUS decision was arguably flawed).

Uh, I thought I acknowledged that part was wrong already... Mea Culpa, my bad and all that.

Just think we need to take a look at our entire "justice" system, cause we are definitely putting alot of kids in jail which would suggest other underlying problems that need to be addressed. Fair enough?

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Uh, I thought I acknowledged that part was wrong already ...

So did I until your last post. That is all I challenged. Fair enough.

At first blush, I agree that there are "underlying problems" that need to be addressed though I'm not so sure that they lie in the justice system. I am more inclined to the belief that environment (schools/neighborhood/home), society, and parents are where the underlying problems rest ... and that the courts receive the fallout. Regardless, I agree with what I perceive to be your overarching premise - too many kids are falling through the crack.

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Originally posted by Jade_Gate:

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Uh, I thought I acknowledged that part was wrong already ...

So did I until your last post. That is all I challenged. Fair enough.

At first blush, I agree that there are "underlying problems" that need to be addressed though I'm not so sure that they lie in the justice system. I am more inclined to the belief that environment (schools/neighborhood/home), society, and parents are where the underlying problems rest ... and that the courts receive the fallout. Regardless, I agree with what I perceive to be your overarching premise - too many kids are falling through the crack.

And it only took me a half dozen posts to make myself even slightly understandable!

Should not post before noon.

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Originally posted by Grandjester:

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Originally posted by Jade_Gate:

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Uh, I thought I acknowledged that part was wrong already ...

So did I until your last post. That is all I challenged. Fair enough.

At first blush, I agree that there are "underlying problems" that need to be addressed though I'm not so sure that they lie in the justice system. I am more inclined to the belief that environment (schools/neighborhood/home), society, and parents are where the underlying problems rest ... and that the courts receive the fallout. Regardless, I agree with what I perceive to be your overarching premise - too many kids are falling through the crack.

And it only took me a half dozen posts to make myself even slightly understandable!

Should not post before noon.

I don't know ... isn't noon when "Happy Hour" starts? Sun over the yardarm and all that?



Have a good day.

quote:

Originally posted by Grandjester:

quote:

Originally posted by 12520504:
So he was 17? There are 17 year olds and younger who are tried as adults and serving adult sentences in the US right now. How is he any different?

The US had incarcerated and sentenced to death more children than all other nations put together. Yeah! #1! About 160 on death row right now, really something to be proud of.

For you non-veterans, let me explain a simple axiom of combat: DEAD IS DEAD! IT DOSEN'T MATTER IF IT'S CAUSED BY A 98 YEAR-OLD OR A 17 YEAR-OLD! If the enemy chooses to enlist 17 year-olds as combatants then it is our duty to take them out before they take us out! Go blame the enemy! (Oh, I couldn't do that. They are just poor misunderstood people who probably didn't get enough nurturing and love from their parents, or maybe it was the society they grew up in who negleted their psycological and social-fullfillment needs, or we capitalist-pigs may have poisoned their environment with toxins and cancer-causing fumes, or, or, or............).

It must be wonderful to live in "The Land of Denial" where one can go through life without any real-life experiences which would allow them the ability to validate the bleeding-heart
nonsense they spew, while feeeling secure in attacking those who had those experiences.