|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||
Military.com Forums Hot Topics & Current Events In the News U.S. Hits Brit Plan to Arm Afghan Locals|
Go
|
New
|
Find
|
Notify
|
Tools
|
Reply
|
|
|
Member |
RE: http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,160060,00.html
As I understand the article, the British are doing in Afghanistan exactly the same thing we have been so proud of doing in Iraq: arming the locals to fight the Taleban, just as Americans are arming Sunnis to fight "al Qaeda". What gives? I speculate that the U.S. wants to permanently enfeeble the Shiite-led Iraqi national government, and at the same time to empower the Afghan national governement. Another possibility is that the pig-headed Americans are just mad that they didn't come up with the same idea first. The Americans also may not like the idea of the British raising their profile in this "captive country" to a level with that of the United States. But as far as counter-insurgency tactics go, what the British are employing is "textbook". These tactics should have been done from the outset, provided that you really want the local population to fight its own battles. (And don't fear that they will use these weapons to defend their villages and farms from the Americans.) |
||
|
New Member |
 AG you hit the nail on the head. I am impressed that there are vets out there that can think without spouting some party rhetoric. |
|||
|
New Member |
With all due respect, sir, I believe the issue is that there is a much higher level of Tribalism in Afghanistan than in Iraq. It is an error to compare the situation Afghanistan to the situation in Iraq.
There are many warlords in the Afghan country-side that are NOT sympathetic to the new government and re-arming them with modern weaponry would create a bunch of little armies that the Afghan government could potentially have to defend against. Afghanistan has been living like the wild west for...well, just about forever...decades in "modern" terms of weaponry. Iraq on the otherhand, while it was tyrannical and oppressive, had a government and established structure already in place. It is reasonable to assume a militia structure in Iraq would work better in the chain-of-command than a militia in Afghanistan would. You are also faced with the fact that Al-Qaeda is generally despised in Iraq by almost all parties. You create a militia there with a common goal of fighting a singular opponent. In Afghanistan, you have a deposed government (Taliban) who, while not universally liked by any means, WAS the government and still retains followers among the many tribes. How, then, do you determine WHICH tribes are re-armed, which are not re-armed, and for that matter, which you can trust not to turn-coat and join the "team" they see as the stronger? I don't personally agree with creating a militia force...I'm not emphatically opposed to it, but I think if you can get a structured system in place, that would be the better route. Just my 2-cents. Regards, Matt Everhart http://www.blackhawkfitness.com |
|||
|
|
Member |
"Last month, Gordon Brown said Britain would increase its support for "community defence initiatives, where local volunteers are recruited to defend homes and families modelled on traditional Afghan arbakai". The arbakai system involves arming untrained Afghani men, who agree to come running at the beating of a drum if their village elders feel threatened."
I'll admit, this not you typical military strategy, but then again we are not dealing with you typical military. From our intel, these are terroists. Besides, most Americans own guns and will probably do the same thing if our village or home town were attacted. If it'll work, by all means go for it. |
|||
|
|
Member |
|
|||
|
|
New Member |
You have to remember that the British forces are probably the most experienced in the world at fighting successful counter-insurgency ops. (Malaya, Oman, Northern Ireland etc.) This is a typical CoIn tactic. Get the locals to fight for us, either by intel gathering or in this case, defending themselves so that we don't have to.
As long as we do this along side hearts-and-minds, it probably will work. |
|||
|
Experienced Member |
And we wonder why so many problems exist in these two wars...we cannot even agree with our most loyal Ally. I guess we make a distinction between Afghan war lords and the Sunni tribal sheiks in Anbar? Only real difference, the Afghans are growing poppies.
Frankly, arm all of them and let the chips fall where they may. If they want to slaughter one another, who are we to stop them? Hell, we don't give a rats azz about the hundreds of thousands of Africans being slaughtered...what makes the Iraqi's and Afghans so special that American troops have to shed blood and life for them? Iraq/Afghanistan - dead ends despite the rhetoric from our politicians and our military leadership. You want to protect the US, then control the borders and develop a huge, efficient humit cadre throughout the world. Nothing is preventing terrorists from moving world wide, certainly not our dying and maimed in Iraq and Afghanistan...we're just targets of opportunity to the enemy in both Iraq and Afghanistan. And lets face it, both governments are pretty much useless. We bought Iraq time with our troops blood and what have they done with it? Zilch, nothing, nada, zero! We're getting played like a fiddle but political and military ego's just won't admit it...it would look bad on their resumes. S/F Gordon |
|||
|
|
New Member |
The rivalry between Brits and Americans is really getting on my nerves. I assure you that this story will be plastered all over the front page of every left-wing newspaper in Britain with the headline: "Stupid Americans Disrespect Britain Again" Personally I hope the US General backs down because we're currently getting nowhere fast in Afghanistan. I like the idea because it shows the Afghan people that we're only against some of them. |
|||
|
|
Suspended. S_S |
I bet it won't. This 'rivalry' really doesn't exist outside of any member of any military believing that his training is better than anyone else's. It's imagined, so don't get wound up about it.
I agree, and I think all approaches should be tried and the best ones developed as experience indicates. There can never be a pre-planned path to victory in Afghanistan against people, and an ideology, we don't fully understand. |
|||
|
New Member |
This same intitiative was used in Somalia with great success until the Clinton Administration got a hold of it and had it blocked. Now it probably wouldn't have worked in Mogadishu; but it would have helped make the relief operation to the countryside a lot easier.
However without knowing all situations and conditions in country, I feel it is ill advised to comment or arm chair quarter back such subjects as this. It is just too complicated. I'm pretty well versed on Iraq but not Afganistan, so I will withhold judgement. I suspect that pashtun sympathy along the border areas may make this plan impractical, if they want the central Afgan government to hold any influence at all in their own country. This message has been edited. Last edited by: JCitizen, |
|||
|
|
New Member |
Vietnam vets tell me this kind of program was working real well near the DMZ, but politics with President Lyndon Johnson put the toyotas on that - we can, looking back now - see how well that President prosecuted the war, with his micro-management and all. I got to admit I would probably trust the British with the situation more than most because they were run out of Afganistan about a hundred years ago and their military historians probably got a good handle on the situation on the ground there. |
|||
|
|
Member |
What was that little village the brits turned over to local control feb. 07? Y'know that was then overran by the talibs until a tri-country assault dislodged them 10 months later where in spite of encirclement that took 2 weeks to execute they mostly "melted away"? Only one way I know for a terrorist to melt, and my way they don't come back. Who knows if it's a good idea or not. Prepare the slings and arrows, but I have nothing against a little trial and error.
|
|||
|
|
New Member |
Well, I'am surprised anyone would disagree with the Brit's. I mean after all, back in 1842 when over 30,000 of them lost thier lives over there. They would know bets what to do!
|
|||
|
|
New Member |
|
|||
|
|
New Member |
What do events of 165 years ago have to do with what's done today? |
|||
|
|
Experienced Member |
Author Topic: U.S. Hits Brit Plan to Arm Afghan Locals
15956935 Posted Tue 29 January 2008 05:57 AM quote: Originally posted by 16608388: Well, I'am surprised anyone would disagree with the Brit's. I mean after all, back in 1842 when over 30,000 of them lost thier lives over there. They would know bets what to do! What do events of 165 years ago have to do with what's done today? (Plenty! The conditions that existed 165 years ago, well, they are the same today. Only difference is, the new bad guys have much better weapons, explosives and are better financed and trained.) S/F Gordon |
|||
|
|
New Member |
Good to hear from you uh34d! And I couldn't agree more.
Say I couldn't help notice your moniker using the good old UH34D! I real work horse in Vietnam. I tried to join the Marines when things were still hot over there but my parents wouldn't let me quit highschool. I just never got over that. Good or Bad I still wanted to do my part! Weird HuH? This message has been edited. Last edited by: JCitizen, |
|||
|
|
Experienced Member |
JCitizen:
Thank you for the reply. Regarding the UH34, could not agree more. Would take a licking and keep on ticking. Managed to make it back to base on a number of occasions when most other aircraft would have been left in an LZ. As for the Marine Corps, I always feel sorry for those who could not get in. Would not change those four years for all of the money in the world. Our son is a Marine and on another tour in Iraq. Tried to convince him to go into the air wing but he wanted to be a grunt. He got his wish and multiple tours in Iraq. He will be leaving his latest tour this coming February 28, so we're counting down the days. I now of course have a better appreciation for how my parents felt when I was in and visiting sunny South-East Asia. Frankly, I would, if I could, do another tour in Nam than to have gone through our sons multiple tours. Really keeps you on edge. Just a though, the next reunion for the Marine Combat Helicopter Association is coming up in Washington, DC this year. We usually have a few different aircraft there including 34's. If you show up, perhaps you can get a ride in one...I just love the sound of that nine cylinder 1820 radial engine...and the stack noise and smell, well, the closest I have come to it as a civilian is at the drag strip. S/F Gordon ______________________________________________ Posted Wed 30 January 2008 02:01 AM Good to hear from you uh34d! And I couldn't agree more. Say I couldn't help notice your moniker using the good old UH46D! I real work horse in Vietnam. I tried to join the Marines when things were still hot over there but my parents wouldn't let me quit highschool. I just never got over that. Good or Bad I still wanted to do my part! Weird HuH? |
|||
|
|
New Member |
Thanks for the reply and invite; WILCO and out!
(edited) Sorry for the typo on the model number; I swear I got dyslexia! I was refering to the UH34D - I still can't believe I did that! |
|||
|
| Powered by Eve Community |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
Military.com Forums Hot Topics & Current Events In the News U.S. Hits Brit Plan to Arm Afghan Locals
