RE: http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,159911,00.html

For legal purposes, a permanent military encampment is considered US soil, and governed by US laws. (For example, the hospital where my son was born was in another country, owned by that country, leased by the US Army. It was considered US soil.) The idea that US law does not apply to Gitmo is ludicrous. Gitmo needs to go, and the unconstitutional, un-American methods used to hold those prisoners without proper judicial process need to be scrapped.

Its the great paradox, if everything done there is so legal, ethical, and above board, why does it have to be done in a legal never-never land like Guantanamo bay?

Don't give the "security" line of BS.. There are plenty of places, Johnston Island, Midway, the Aleutians, hell even Alcatraz, that are just as secure, and indisputably US territory ...

If they've done something wrong, try them, convict them, and sentence them, to death if it warrants it. We gain nothing by indefinately imprisoning low-level towel head islamists, but even more low-level towel head islamists...

It is a slap in the face of all we are defending. Holding prisoner's taken in a Global War on Terrorism without any rights... if they were American citizens or military personnel... have we sunk to the same level as the enemy?

The detainees at Gitmo are prisoners of war and are being treated as such. The judicial process out lined by the Geneva Conventions are being followed. They are well fed, well housed, and given excellent medical treatment. Want to move them? Contract the Vietnamese Government to hold them in their Political prison and furnish any information we want from the POW to us.

The CJSS is absolutely right, because:

• Job One is winning in Iraq and Afghanistan.
• Essential to that objective is creating a functioning justice system.
• Guantanamo Prison is proof that America has not accomplished that goal.
• Keeping Guantanamo Prison open is a "War-on-the-Cheap" strategy
• Therefore, Guantanamo Prison must be closed.
• The Guantanamo prisoners must receive justice.
• This is essential to victory.

I am particularly concerned that keeping Guantanamo Prison open is just another "War-on-the-Cheap" strategy on the part of the Administration. That is why America's top military commanders want nothing to do with it.

Those prisoners need to be tried, convicted, and sentenced in accordance either U.S. law or Geneva Convention law. If they are guilty then punish them, if they are innocent then free them. It really is that simple. If the U.S. Government can not figure out what law to use to try these individuals , then what law is being used to detain them? Did the U.S. adopt the former U.S.S.R. system of government...FEAR!

I like this Admiral Mullen guy. But I bet the administration does NOT. Oh well, can't have everything you want.

quote:

Mullen also walked through an almost-completed top-security courtroom where the military expects to hold trials beginning this spring for the 14 "high-value" terror suspects who had previously been held at secret CIA prisons abroad. He was told that audio of the proceedings might be piped to locations in the United States where families of the Sept. 11 terror attacks, and perhaps others, could hear them.

That will never happen. In fact, I doubt the "Trials" will either, especially since the SC has already ruled on this subject...??? The second they make this into a dog and pony show by allowing it to become a show-trial? That is the day they will lose any remaining credibility they think they still have.

from the technical aspect of it they are NOT prisoners of war as they are not soldiers in any army nor wearing a uniform. They are illegal enemy combatants. I suppose if everyone wants to make a fuss about it we can always go back to the old way of dealing with such sum and just execute them and be done with it. A little FYI, Russia also has a similar facility for Chechnian terrorists only they dont advertise it like the US and I assure you they are not treated anywhere near as well as gitmo prisoners are.

Where do you turn these people loose so that they arent setting an IED and blowing up your brother or son 2 months later?

quote:

Originally posted by FlankerFlyer:
from the technical aspect of it they are NOT prisoners of war as they are not soldiers in any army nor wearing a uniform. They are illegal enemy combatants. I suppose if everyone wants to make a fuss about it we can always go back to the old way of dealing with such sum and just execute them and be done with it. A little FYI, Russia also has a similar facility for Chechnian terrorists only they dont advertise it like the US and I assure you they are not treated anywhere near as well as gitmo prisoners are.

Where do you turn these people loose so that they arent setting an IED and blowing up your brother or son 2 months later?

Maybe the administration should have thought of that, like 4 years ago? I agree that we cannot just let them loose, but legally this is a minefield... even Mullen called them "High Value Terror Suspects", not enemy combatants.

I am not a legal expert, but I would bet that many of these "suspects" would be freed after an actual "Trial", and many would not... but let's get the actual legal-definition of just WHAT they are, first?

quote:

....

Where do you turn these people loose so that they arent setting an IED and blowing up your brother or son 2 months later?

So you believe that's a legitimate basis for keeping someone at Gitmo?

A belief that they MIGHT do something?

Shouldn't we detain the entire MEast then?

quote:

A little FYI, Russia also has a similar facility for Chechnian terrorists only they dont advertise it like the US and I assure you they are not treated anywhere near as well as gitmo prisoners are.

We are not supposed to be anywhere NEAR as badly governed or treated by our ACTUAL court system as are the Russians. WE are supposed to be a nation of LAWS. Russia, on the other hand?

C'mon...

Oh,yes! Absolutely! Shut down Gitmo prison as quickly as possible and move those poor unfortunate souls being illegally held there to somewhere in the United States, and give them the benefit of our legal system by trying them in a duly constituted court of law! (Except, of course, don't do it in MY back yard!)

I didn't see where anyone said anything like that... but it would be the right thing to do IF they were considered POW's. But they are not... so what ARE they considered to be, legally speaking?

quote:

Oh,yes! Absolutely! Shut down Gitmo prison as quickly as possible and move those poor unfortunate souls being illegally held there to somewhere in the United States, and give them the benefit of our legal system by trying them in a duly constituted court of law! (Except, of course, don't do it in MY back yard!)

AS MUCH AS I WOULD DEARLY LOVE TO GIVE THEM OVER TO THE N. VIETNAMESE AND PUT INTO A "NEW AND IMPROVED" HANOI HILTON, IT AIN'T PRACTICAL. WHY DON'T WE JUST RFDI TAG THEM AND CUT THEM LOOSE. THE WELL BEHAVED ONES WON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO WORRY ABOUT AND THE OTHERS WE TURN INTO "GOOD" TERRORIST WHEN WE FIND THEM BEING BAD AGAIN. I'M SURE THAT THE RFDI TAGS CAN BE PUT WHERE THEY CAN'T BE DUG OUT. IT'S CHEAPER THAN EITHER PRISONS AND WOULD ONLY NEED ONE "GUARD" ON A COMPUTOR WATCHING THEM.
SEMPER FI

There is no North-Vietnam anymore.

It's going to be real interesting to see what we manage to sort out with Cuba, and what happens there, once Castro passes on, and since he's as old as he is, I'm a 61 year old grandfather, and when he took office, or took over, which ever you prefer, I was in 8th grade well, that can't be all that far off. Anybody know anything about the next generation of Cuban leaders, and what will happen, or what we're guessing will happen post-Fidel? As to Gitmo itself, well I think it probably generates more negative publicity than it achieves in security etc., Wouldn't it be possible to do the same thing and lock them all up at Alcatraz? Or even build a maximum security joint inside the Continental US? Surely that would be "safer" than having them locked up where they are?

quote:

Originally posted by Markonius: Those prisoners need to be tried, convicted, and sentenced in accordance either U.S. law or Geneva Convention law. If they are guilty then punish them, if they are innocent then free them.

Agreed 100%. One more part is necessary, but it is not easy:

• If guilt cannot be proved, release them.

That's the tough one. But without it, the United State is just another fascist state.

For some reason, a lot of people have trouble understanding this. IMHO, many of these people would prefer to live in a fascist state.

Freedom and justice are scary concepts---fascism takes away that fear.

quote:

Originally posted by TPCAT:
....... As to Gitmo itself, well I think it probably generates more negative publicity than it achieves in security etc., Wouldn't it be possible to do the same thing and lock them all up at Alcatraz? Or even build a maximum security joint inside the Continental US? Surely that would be "safer" than having them locked up where they are?

Tpcat,
Gitmo also has the power to keep people at home quiet, it's not exclusively for foreign jihadis.

If they are as bad as we say they are, try them, convict them, and execute them.

Keeping low level battlefield detainees from the early part of this decade in indefinate limbo does nothing but erode our credibility and moral authority...

The "security" arguement is bogus. We kept thousands of German POWs on the mainland in WW2, and there are many places as secure, if not moreso, that aren't in a legal blackhole..

But then again, they aren't POWs, or maybe they are, the pro-guantanimo camp's arguements become become more convoluted as the days go on..

quote:

They are illegal enemy combatants. I suppose if everyone wants to make a fuss about it we can always go back to the old way of dealing with such sum and just execute them and be done with it. A little FYI, Russia also has a similar facility for Chechnian terrorists

calling someone an Illegal combantant implies they have broken some law, does it not? It shouldn't be necessary to indefintaely imprison law breakers without charges, should it?

Also:
"The Russians do it too" ain't gonna win many legal/moral arguements..

You are protecting the rights of SoBs that tried and wanted to kill us. Admiral. I do not mean to be nasty; I also have rights to express my opinion, under the UCMJ and Article 1, US Constition, on your assignment; and so do you. I fully understand. Congrats. Be real. GITMO is an important base for our Great Country. You want to see my identity? No way. I am ex Air Force and Army, Silver Star and 3 Bronze Stars for Bravery in combat (SpecOps). not Swabbie.Go and dance with Fidel and Hugo, and that other SOB in South America. I am a FIGHTER, not a stupid and *** hole politician . Good luck, Sir. My military salute to you.