Bush, Clinton and Bush have destroyed the largest & best equipped military in the world. Our once proud military is the laughing stock of the world. Heck, we couldn't defend ourselves against a bunch of Boy Scouts (not meant to offend the Boy Scouts).

The US is in the worst shape since 1939... at least then they had a nation willing to take up arms and defend itself. Now, we are contracting out our military, conscript soldiers... cause after all, it's easier than having to do it ourselves. We have become slovenly and lazy and it appears that we are now a great experiment gone bad !

Morning BG, and a happy New Year to you. We are being a little ray of sunshine this morning aren't we? Surely the answer lies in solving the problem with the planes, whatever that problem is. You know the old saying: "The difficult we do immediately, the impossible may take awhile . . ." The problem should not be beyond solving. Just takes money to do what ever needs to be done to the planes to get them back in the air, or replace them. Has the Air Force looked at the new Euro Fighter? It's a fantastic plane . . .and a large order would keep jobs going in the UK. Buy from your allies, not your enemies . . .

I am not so sure... Especially since none of those men has had a direct hand in either the design or upkeep of those planes, so how to be sure there was anything they could have done to see this coming and take steps to fix them before they became so structurally unsound? Problematic, at best.

BUT, I agree... 450 fighter jets is a LOT of fighter jets to NOT be patrolling our skies.

The differences between the F-14 and F-15 are substantial, but didn't we just decommission some 450(or more?) F-14's within the last 2 years, so isn't there a way to push those birds back into the line, if only to protect the homeland skies...?

For all I know they may have already trashed and recycled most of those planes, but I am betting not... anyway, seems like there COULD be an answer, just sitting on the desert plane in Arizona waiting to be detailed and tested, then flown back into service...?

Like I said... I do not know of they could be refurbished, so is there anyone in here who DOES know?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Weatherguesser,

Our military is in the worst shape in years because the MEDIA says we are. And you really should believe everything in the media......NOT! From somoene that serve, would you consider that an insult against the young men and women that are serving now by saying they can't defend themselves against Boy Scouts? It is funny to hear the "old veterans" that have served calling the young men and women that are currently serving less than qualified! Believe me the US military is still the best military in the world hands down!

quote:

Originally posted by blueghost26:
Bush, Clinton and Bush have destroyed the largest & best equipped military in the world. Our once proud military is the laughing stock of the world. Heck, we couldn't defend ourselves against a bunch of Boy Scouts (not meant to offend the Boy Scouts).

The US is in the worst shape since 1939... at least then they had a nation willing to take up arms and defend itself. Now, we are contracting out our military, conscript soldiers... cause after all, it's easier than having to do it ourselves. We have become slovenly and lazy and it appears that we are now a great experiment gone bad !

The sky is falling..the sky is falling. Jesus Christ who are we concerned about invading our air space. Russia and North Korea cannot ffed their people let alone launch an air attack. Get off of it. All this is is the Air Farce screaming for more money to defend against nothing. When you think about it, scrap the Wild Blue Yonder Boys (and gals) and use the air arms of the Army, Navy and Marines.

Strictly speaking in terms of numbers, our Military IS at it's lowest point since before WWII.

However, less doesn't mean the same as it did 60 years ago when million-man armies rolled across the European continent supported by tens of thousands of Tanks, and rifles that fired once every time a(German) soldier wanted to fire it.

I mean, seriously here.

quote:

Originally posted by TerryPaggi:
The sky is falling..the sky is falling. Jesus Christ who are we concerned about invading our air space. Russia and North Korea cannot ffed their people let alone launch an air attack. Get off of it. All this is is the Air Farce screaming for more money to defend against nothing. When you think about it, scrap the Wild Blue Yonder Boys (and gals) and use the air arms of the Army, Navy and Marines.

C'mon man. You cannot be serious? The Japanese invaded our skies once, as did the 9-11 Hijackers... both times while ALL our Aircraft
sat on the ground.

my son was an f-15 and f-22 crew chief. Congress downsized the replacement of the f-15s by the 22s to save money. They knew there was structural wear. Some 15s have not been allowed to mach one for quite a while now.

Would it be naiive to wonder if the Navy could help with carrier-based planes in coastal areas?

quote:

Originally posted by TPCAT:
Morning BG, and a happy New Year to you. We are being a little ray of sunshine this morning aren't we? Surely the answer lies in solving the problem with the planes, whatever that problem is. You know the old saying: "The difficult we do immediately, the impossible may take awhile . . ." The problem should not be beyond solving. Just takes money to do what ever needs to be done to the planes to get them back in the air, or replace them. Has the Air Force looked at the new Euro Fighter? It's a fantastic plane . . .and a large order would keep jobs going in the UK. Buy from your allies, not your enemies . . .

We could start with less MRAPs and more upkeep on the F-15's etc etc

I wonder, is this too much information? Do we need to know these things. If we know them our enemies, potential and real also know. That's all I have to say about that.

I personally don't think this is the sort of story that should be published, especially at MILITARY.COM

Giving locations, strengths, TAOR's etc. to those who would do us harm is less than smart.

Perhaps MILITARY.COM should consider what is NOT APPROPRIATE information to be published.

For those who say, so what?... keep in mind that it is not only military personnel who read in here. Teeny boppers as well as foreign nationals can get into this website. If you check it out, did anyone ask YOU for credentials when you logged in? The answer is NO, only callsign and password which any swinging d**k can make up at a whim.

This nation's security issues is not upheld in MILITARY.COM.

Pissed off Marine Staff NCO.

Well, I guess I'm the newest kid on the block with an opinion. We as a defense system and biggest and most uptodate military, are improving our "AIR FLEET". The F18 E/F&Gs Are now in service, with the "G" coming to a theater near you. In 2009 the JSF will start replacing the F15. Not to mention the "RAPTOR". WE have the most uptodate, advance, powerfull and state of the art weapons in the world; along with some highly intelligent forces; which all need less people to operate. ALL in all I have confidence in our aviators and crews to fend for us all with pride and dilegence. I'm just glad they found the problem now.

I totally disagree with your statement "Especially since none of those men has had a direct hand in either the design or upkeep of those planes" This does fall back directly on the Commander-In-Chief as well as the other leaders below him. It is his responsibility and those other leaders to make sure our Military is ready 100% of the time. This situation and the rest of the mess we are in goes back to 1 thing. - Corporations run our country, not the people that should be. Money is the the bottom line issue here I am sure. As for the F-14s, I was maintenance on them for 6 years. It should have been cheaper building new ones and giving the Fleet Jets that we didn;t have to worry about being hanger queens 8 months out of the year and not allowing corporations not to take advantage of the needs of this country. Think about the military we could of had, had all that money not been wasted in IRAQ. We best get it together or there will not be a country left. Many F14s are in the desert taking a cat nap. It would probably take 1 to 2 years each to get them flying again provided the Iranian and China Government would gladdly sell us some parts for them. <ha!>

quote:

Originally posted by Weatherguesser:
I am not so sure... Especially since none of those men has had a direct hand in either the design or upkeep of those planes, so how to be sure there was anything they could have done to see this coming and take steps to fix them before they became so structurally unsound? Problematic, at best.

BUT, I agree... 450 fighter jets is a LOT of fighter jets to NOT be patrolling our skies.

The differences between the F-14 and F-15 are substantial, but didn't we just decommission some 450(or more?) F-14's within the last 2 years, so isn't there a way to push those birds back into the line, if only to protect the homeland skies...?

For all I know they may have already trashed and recycled most of those planes, but I am betting not... anyway, seems like there COULD be an answer, just sitting on the desert plane in Arizona waiting to be detailed and tested, then flown back into service...?

Like I said... I do not know of they could be refurbished, so is there anyone in here who DOES know?

just read what CBS has to say about this?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/12/21/eveningnews/main3640606.shtml

waste money.it is upstting.

It's the "use it or loose it" system. Commanders want to have excess instead of not enough. What the article does not say is that type of equipment (office funiture etc) and even spare parts are all different funding from air craft repair. The article makes it look like the AF can just divert xxx number of dollars from this to that, but that's not how it's set up and maybe that is part of the problem. I use to know a little more about the Navys OPTAR funding but it's been a while.

quote:

Originally posted by tallpaul1961:
just read what CBS has to say about this?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/12/21/eveningnews/main3640606.shtml

waste money.it is upstting.

you are absolutely right, the only REAL achievments the airforce provides are strictly R&D related. anything else could most certainly be handled by the other three branches.

quote:

Originally posted by Weatherguesser:

quote:

Originally posted by TerryPaggi:
The sky is falling..the sky is falling. Jesus Christ who are we concerned about invading our air space. Russia and North Korea cannot ffed their people let alone launch an air attack. Get off of it. All this is is the Air Farce screaming for more money to defend against nothing. When you think about it, scrap the Wild Blue Yonder Boys (and gals) and use the air arms of the Army, Navy and Marines.

C'mon man. You cannot be serious? The Japanese invaded our skies once, as did the 9-11 Hijackers... both times while ALL our Aircraft
sat on the ground.

its not naive at all, and to be honest, there are a couple hundred F-18s stationed in california so these cry-baby chairforce and ANG pilots who think they are "defending"" an entire coast all by their lonesome are EXTREMELY misinformed about the situation

quote:

Originally posted by pastorel:
Would it be naiive to wonder if the Navy could help with carrier-based planes in coastal areas?

quote:

Originally posted by TerryPaggi:
The sky is falling..the sky is falling. Jesus Christ who are we concerned about invading our air space. Russia and North Korea cannot ffed their people let alone launch an air attack. Get off of it. All this is is the Air Farce screaming for more money to defend against nothing. When you think about it, scrap the Wild Blue Yonder Boys (and gals) and use the air arms of the Army, Navy and Marines.

So the Air Force is making it up that Russia has been increasing their flights into US airspace over the last few years?
Those F-15 pilots are losing their qualifications while they are grounded. To get them requalified is going to take a lot of time and money, not to mention how bad it's making the AF look. Do you really think the AF is doing this to themsleves? There is better ways to prove you need money.
Thanks for spitting on my uniform.

quote:

Originally posted by aowoody:
its not naive at all, and to be honest, there are a couple hundred F-18s stationed in california so these cry-baby chairforce and ANG pilots who think they are "defending"" an entire coast all by their lonesome are EXTREMELY misinformed about the situation

quote:

Originally posted by pastorel:
Would it be naiive to wonder if the Navy could help with carrier-based planes in coastal areas?

So that would mean then the AF and ANG would only have to worry about the Mid-North and Midwest. The Navy can handle the rest.

Should have never let the Eagle fall like this. A great plane.