Seems "Thank you for your service" just doesn't do it for some. Because of the weapons used in the Middle East our troops are experiencing more horrific events then in previous wars. Some are affected by it more then others. They need our help and support.
BTW, the IRS, part of the government, has been tracking you all your life.
I'm an Army Brat and the son of a WWII, Korean Veteran. Recently several of us Army Brats got together and discussed the problems that many returning troops are having. The botom line that we came up with is TROOP SHIPS. Our fathers came home on these ships with 4 or 5 thousand other returning war torn troops. They had time to talk with other guys that had the same type of experiences. They had time to de-compress from the riggers of War. Todays troop are in the middle of battle 1 day taken off the line, flown back to the states and 3 or 4 days later they are back with people who really have no idea of what they have gone through. This same thing happend to the men & woman in Viet Nam. These men & woman need time to talk about what they went through with others who have gone through the same type of experiences.
I would think more statistics need to be taken such as what is the percentile of suicide in the populous of the United States in general?
Suicidal rates after leaving military services have always been a tad higher for many reasons and this is nothing new.
Does participating in conflict contribute? Very possible and the reasons can be as numerous as reasoning will allow. It is always simpler to blame one's problems on one's past environment and there maybe as much truth to that as anything else.
This rhetoric has always followed during conflict periods which is understandable if you realize that the families of the deceased are seeking restitution for the loss of their loved ones. Some are always seeking to blame others for their loss.
It's a shame that some feel that suicide is a way of getting away from one's problems and they usually don't realize that it is a permanent solution for one's existence.
I'm starting to wonder how the world survived all these years without the wisdom of the naysayers seeking revenge for the actions of the few... who could not cope with reality, usually because of mental anxieties or just fear of living.
Mental problems are nothing new, neither is constantly attempting to blame the blame on everything and everybody except the individuals state of mind. It is my understanding that usually these individuals are crying out for help way before the final act is played out. Maybe, just maybe a lot of these unnecessary deaths could have been stopped if peers and family were paying attention.
It would be interesting to see what they find. But would the data found be used for programs that would actually serve our veterans & help reduce those suicide rates? What can can be done by that SM's inner circle (family, friends, buddies, etc) to help identify warning signs & prevent this travesty from happening?
What about those who have attempted suicide but are still alive? Will there be any data on them to give an insight as to what the heck is going on with the mental health system in the military/VA?
What about those who have attempted suicide but are still alive? Will there be any data on them to give an insight as to what the heck is going on with the mental health system in the military/VA?
I think you're forgetting that we're talking about people that are not in the military any longer. The question would be is it the military's responsibility to continually reconnaissance on the mental conditions of those who have long departed its domain?
Was the individuals seeking help for their mental conditions?
Do we want another watchdog watching over us without our consent after all we do value on our privacy... although in truth there is no such thing in the modern age?
Was the individual participating in any mental health programs offered by the DOD or other veteran organizations?
A lot of questions has to be answered before we place blame.
Originally posted by 7531056: ...Here's what I think: I think I don't want the government tracking me for the rest of my life just because I chose to serve my country.
Then you be sure to decline any & all benefits offered you because of that service.
I'm an Army Brat and the son of a WWII, Korean Veteran. Recently several of us Army Brats got together and discussed the problems that many returning troops are having. The botom line that we came up with is TROOP SHIPS. Our fathers came home on these ships with 4 or 5 thousand other returning war torn troops. They had time to talk with other guys that had the same type of experiences. They had time to de-compress from the riggers of War. Todays troop are in the middle of battle 1 day taken off the line, flown back to the states and 3 or 4 days later they are back with people who really have no idea of what they have gone through. This same thing happend to the men & woman in Viet Nam. These men & woman need time to talk about what they went through with others who have gone through the same type of experiences.
This is what happens when this Organzation known as the VA knowingly hires people that have never spent a day in uniform. And most of these people are either Yuppies or draft dodgers who went and got a piece of paper that said that they were supposely smart, and most of those people are anti-military but yet they're smart enough to know that they can suck and bleed the government dry, and our VA people are to stupid and blind to see it!!!!
I would like to make two comments here A posting earlier ...was making a point of troopships coming home afer ww2 etc etc and that troops had time to talk out their experiences..very true .I would like to add that on my trip home from Iraq i convoyed from biap to balad airbase a little more than 100miles of sheer terror knoiwing it was your last hours in that zone.and once reaching Balad I was back in Germany with in 4-5 hours...so i agree there is no comedown time with modern transport.I also suffered a compression fracture in my spine durning that tour oif 1 and I was never on any injury blotter so I have issues with combat related injuries and I feel bad for the parents of that soldier who took his life at such a young age,,God bless all the men and women out there hurry home and happy christmas....Iraq vet oif 1 2003-2004
Between 1965 and and 1990, an estimated 150,000 Vietnam veterans had committed suicide...nearly 3 times as many as were KIA.
These kinds of numbers are not unique to Vietnam and the wars since. They are merely indicative of tip-of-the-iceberg research into long-term veteran issues that began after Vietnam. Most veterans after earlier wars simply returned to the predominantly rural demographics of those earlier eras, where stories of personal difficulties were kept inside smaller communities or buried in the "bar room support groups" of the American Legion and VFW.
Always the final cost in every war - the mental illness, substance abuse, Post-Traumatic Stress, difficulties with relationships, jobs and homelessness - never seem to be tallied in to the final cost of the high price we pay for foreign entanglements, just or otherwise.
You may expect this to be played down by leaders who bang the drum and wave the flag...they will never pay a penny - not out of pocket or mind - for the adventures they create at our expense.
Maybe Dad was right after Korea, the only way to prevent war is to make the politicians lead the first charge...with swords and bayonets.
"there is no glory in war, only death, destruction, shattered bodies and disturbed minds"
SinepariDonster amen brother.. "so they collected the woonded the crippled the maimed and shipped us back home to Austrailia the armless the legless the blind and insane those sad proud heros of suvla, and when our ship pulled into cicular key i looked at the place where me legs used to be and thanked christ there was no body waiting for me to grieve and to morn and to pity ,and the band played waltzing malitida as they carried us the the gangway but nobody cheered they just stood there and staired and turned their faces away.....Gallipoli 1915
Originally posted by bill_kananen: Seems "Thank you for your service" just doesn't do it for some. Because of the weapons used in the Middle East our troops are experiencing more horrific events then in previous wars. Some are affected by it more then others. They need our help and support.
BTW, the IRS, part of the government, has been tracking you all your life.
Booby traps have been around since the beginning of time.
In my opinion.... I DON'T MEAN ANY DISRESPECT TOWARDS ANYONE...
Today's society is weak. AND I AM ONE OF THE WEAK. What I mean is, that we do not have it as bad as our fellow bretheran who fought before us in Viet Nam, Korea or WWII. They didn't have Civil Affarirs or counselors come to their camps after BOMBS were dropped on there camp or when they had to carry one another's limbs back to camp after their buddy lost it in a fire fight. I know some fo the veterans were crying wolf when they came home, but for the majority of the vets, they silently dealt with their demons on a daily basis. Mainly because our society back then did not back them up and even called them 'BABY KILLERS'.
Don't get me wrong, or think I am NOT one of these vets who doesn't need the help, I do. I am just trying to say that we have it so much easier than our fore-fathers did. I don't want to think about not having the option to talk to a counselor after I scrape up my buddy's brain off of the ground, just so his family knew someone cared for him 'OVER THER'. We. I! are becoming a weak society allowing other country's take our attention off of our own. We need to stop trying to make everyone happy(WINNING THE HEARTS AND MINDS!) and spend OUR TAX DOLLARS own our Veterans and active duty servicemen/women. We are PROUD to say 'WE ARE THE GREATEST NATION', but in many aspects we are not. We have weaknesses that are vulnerable and that can be exsploited.
Please foregive me if I offended anyone on this forum. I am just having a bad week. I lost a Soldier 2 weeks ago and I am still bitter about it. That and I need to go to the VA, but the nearest clinic is 80 miles away and they close before I get off work.
Looks like more politics to me. Someone is taking advantage of Vets and their families so they can score some political points. There is nothing you can do about suicide. You rarely see it as a looming problem unless there has been an unsucessful attempt and once you know all you can do is hope that the person will change their mind. Counseling could help but how do you know unless there has been an attempt already? Bottomline is you don't know and most of the time you don't know until it is too late.
Originally posted by SinePariDonster: Between 1965 and and 1990, an estimated 150,000 Vietnam veterans had committed suicide...nearly 3 times as many as were KIA.
These kinds of numbers are not unique to Vietnam and the wars since. They are merely indicative of tip-of-the-iceberg research into long-term veteran issues that began after Vietnam. Most veterans after earlier wars simply returned to the predominantly rural demographics of those earlier eras, where stories of personal difficulties were kept inside smaller communities or buried in the "bar room support groups" of the American Legion and VFW.
Always the final cost in every war - the mental illness, substance abuse, Post-Traumatic Stress, difficulties with relationships, jobs and homelessness - never seem to be tallied in to the final cost of the high price we pay for foreign entanglements, just or otherwise.
You may expect this to be played down by leaders who bang the drum and wave the flag...they will never pay a penny - not out of pocket or mind - for the adventures they create at our expense.
Maybe Dad was right after Korea, the only way to prevent war is to make the politicians lead the first charge...with swords and bayonets.
"there is no glory in war, only death, destruction, shattered bodies and disturbed minds"
well I never thought the sons of islam would be a show stopper....You will start the whole debate should we be mixing it up with the sons of islam seems to me they do a good job of it themselfs.I think the point here is preparing for war and all its outcomes.Did we prepare for Iraq ?????? I think not and i believe thats the point being made here.
Originally posted by bill_kananen: Seems "Thank you for your service" just doesn't do it for some. Because of the weapons used in the Middle East our troops are experiencing more horrific events then in previous wars. Some are affected by it more then others. They need our help and support.
BTW, the IRS, part of the government, has been tracking you all your life.
Also, the Social Security Administration and the Census Bureau have been tracking you your whole life, not to mention your state driver's license bureau since you got your license and the local school board. We'd better get used to it!
Originally posted by MagillaMan55: In my opinion.... I DON'T MEAN ANY DISRESPECT TOWARDS ANYONE...
Today's society is weak. AND I AM ONE OF THE WEAK. What I mean is, that we do not have it as bad as our fellow bretheran who fought before us in Viet Nam, Korea or WWII. They didn't have Civil Affarirs or counselors come to their camps after BOMBS were dropped on there camp or when they had to carry one another's limbs back to camp after their buddy lost it in a fire fight. I know some fo the veterans were crying wolf when they came home, but for the majority of the vets, they silently dealt with their demons on a daily basis. Mainly because our society back then did not back them up and even called them 'BABY KILLERS'.
Don't get me wrong, or think I am NOT one of these vets who doesn't need the help, I do. I am just trying to say that we have it so much easier than our fore-fathers did. I don't want to think about not having the option to talk to a counselor after I scrape up my buddy's brain off of the ground, just so his family knew someone cared for him 'OVER THER'. We. I! are becoming a weak society allowing other country's take our attention off of our own. We need to stop trying to make everyone happy(WINNING THE HEARTS AND MINDS!) and spend OUR TAX DOLLARS own our Veterans and active duty servicemen/women. We are PROUD to say 'WE ARE THE GREATEST NATION', but in many aspects we are not. We have weaknesses that are vulnerable and that can be exsploited.
Please foregive me if I offended anyone on this forum. I am just having a bad week. I lost a Soldier 2 weeks ago and I am still bitter about it. That and I need to go to the VA, but the nearest clinic is 80 miles away and they close before I get off work.
I am just whinning. My appologies.
Keep up the good work, though. We are proud of what you have done, and for the fact that you care so much for your troops. Talk to the patient advocate at the VA, maybe they can work out a special arrangement for you in terms of scheduling an appointment.
