I say leave them alone. The insurgents are always using civilians for cover so if we shoot and kill some we look bad. That was one of the first things I learned about before I went over. If a car was moving toward them and they tried to get it to stop and it wouldn't they had every right to fire at it till it stopped. There have been to many car bombings going on to take any kind of chance with anything. We hired them to be hired guns. What do you expect them to be like the military. No THEY ARE HIRED GUNS!!!!
RE: http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,156279,00.html Sounds plausable to me. I also think that the Iraqies had sufficient time to clean up the sceen and bend the facts to support their contention that the incident was unprovoked. This is aiding the insurgent attempt to discredit any and all private guards and if it is successsful they will try it on our own troops each time they are ambushed. They are using the media to our disadvantage again and the public and the politicians are falling for it.
I agree with a couple of posts that I read, leave them alone. The Blackwater employees are highly skilled and trained, and IRAQ is a dangerous place, they are just trying to protect American lives. Sometimes they might over react, but that's not criminal, and the bottom line they are doing their job and saving American lives.
I am siding with The Blackwater guards. I think they are being set up and I do not Trust our FBI or the Iraqis anymore. There is always someone that's being hung out to dry for doing their job!!!
Blackwater was most probably justified. In Nam we used to say that if they opened theior mouths to speak they were lying. They wanted our money, but that was all, they had no problem with dead american soldiers. They were inocent civilians by day and VC by night. They were also expert and put a great deal of effort into covering their actions which is why the "body count" that we had of the enemy was more than a million short of what General Minh acknowledged 10 years after the war to Stanley Karnow for his book VIETNAM. Most likely the convoy was fired upon and was target of an IED which was foiled by Blackwater and the Indiginous population covered it up either on purpose or under threat of death.
Originally posted by vsaws: RE: http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,156279,00.html Sounds plausable to me. I also think that the Iraqies had sufficient time to clean up the sceen and bend the facts to support their contention that the incident was unprovoked. This is aiding the insurgent attempt to discredit any and all private guards and if it is successsful they will try it on our own troops each time they are ambushed. They are using the media to our disadvantage again and the public and the politicians are falling for it.
They are using the media to our disadvantage again and the public and the politicians are falling for it.
These PMCs need to be held accountable by someone. They are not helping us with our mission in Iraq by alienating the people we have LIBERATED FROM OPPRESSION. If killing civilians is our only goal, we can do that with launch codes...and no American need die in the fight.
The insurgents are always using civilians for cover so if we shoot and kill some we look bad.
And we take the bait...
Look back over the last few years were US "military commanders" have complained about how the actions of Security Firms such as Blackwater have made their jobs harder and more dangerous due to their actions.
I was in Iraq... I did more patrols mounted and dismounted than I can count. Agreed it was 05-06.. so I can't say what it's like on the ground today. When I was there, every day was different... so part of me gives these guys the benefit of the doubt. Then again, part of me doesn't.
While I was there the contractors there had the reputation of being cavalier and trigger happy. I'm sure that reputation still exists and for reason. They don't do combat patrols, or raids, or meet with these people day to day like we did (99% of them don't at least). If you did, you'd realize that most of them are not "enemy". Doesn't mean I trusted any of them... just means I was better able to discern a threat from a non-threat. Units with boots on the ground less than 30 days, units with poor leadership, and in some instances contractors too... seemed to perceive everyone as a threat. Rightly so, but there's a smart way and a dumb way to do that. Being aggressive and using aimed warning shots worked well for us. All my guys came home. To shoot at everything within 100 meters of your convoy because someone takes a shot at your vehicle... that's stupid.
A lot of units had the mentality, "if someone shoots at our convoy, or patrol, return fire." Not identify a target and engage, just "return fire". Trust me, when a round skips off into a kid playing soccer a block away because your gunner opened fire just because he heard a round crack over his head and he can't find the shooter, that's bad business. If you get spooked every time an AK-47 round hits your armored vehicle, you haven't seen much, and should probably stay behind the wire and sit at the chowhall eating ice cream with all the other soft-shoe turds.
It's a mess there, and mission number 1 is keep you and your guys alive. Everyone knows that. However, that doesn't give anyone the right to be wreckless there. You can BS a lot of people, but you can't BS people that were in the same situations for 12 months.
You're forgeting one thing, contractors don't have the luxury being able to call in for help at their disposal. It's just who they have right then and their.
Originally posted by rkgtactical: You're forgeting one thing, contractors don't have the luxury being able to call in for help at their disposal. It's just who they have right then and their.
True. I am still not passing judgement on Blackwater. If they leave along with Dyncorp( sp?) them the military acts as the SD's taxi drivers which may bog down what really needs to be done.
As usual I think the MSM is hitting on all the politically correct BS and doesn't like to hear America killing the "Religion of Peace" bad guys. Granted, I never have been in Iraq, just some third world chaotic nation where it was very hard to discern civilians from the bad guys except the bad guys had guns blazing 99% of the time and were store keepers and selling car parts later that day.
This reeks of a coverup probably so the Iraqi's can live in some semblance of peace in a very troubled country. There's no time for the Blackwater shooters/guards to go back to the scene and pick up evidence, look for blood trails and search for the weapons cache. The scene can change in minutes.
My experience with Blackwater is limited. I know one guy from my old squad and he has a world of experience behind him and the integrity to go with it. As I've written before, Blackwater generally hires very seriously experienced warriors to go into combat zones and as far as I've ben told, only those that have been in prior wars are in these areas of operation. I'm waiting to see all the intel before I pass udgement. Too early still.
I agree with VSAWS , this is typical for insurgants , "I'll pee in your eye ! you swear its Holy Water " And they will try this ? on our Troops next ! We need to be Ready ! Never Talk , Then you can Shoot , It will add years to your life ! Marion
The only good homocidist is a dead one. Of course it was justified, but the liberal media want's to play these HIGHLY TRAINED operators as killers of innocents.
Good job "Paul". You have my 100% support.
Iraq...pull your head out of your tribal *** and get into the 21st century.
We've been doing a great job over there. Now it's time you (Iraq) have your "One if by land, two if by sea!"
Originally posted by EAG154: No no no rayld2 The Military commanders can stop the Security Firms any time they want to!!
Not at the local level. Because when they are employed by the US government and/or the Iraqi government the local US commanders do NOT have the power to control the actions of the Security Firms in their area.
We as a nation can deal with Blackwater and the other security forces NOW or LATER. It's gonna worse there using them, not better. They are cowboys... hired guns and answer to NO ONE ! Mercenaries !
Congress has No oversight regarding their actions - neither do the local ground commanders.
You do whatever it takes to kill the enemy in war. If that means having to shoot threw a civilian to get to your target then that is what has to be done.
