RE: http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,155470,00.html
I guess we can cut of their heads to see if they know anything or have them ried with Sen. KENNEDY. REX

These kind of problems are why we haven't won a war since WWII. We're too worried about the people trying to kill us. The bleeding hearts are taking over our country and we're doomed. We need to fire bomb these pukes like we did Germany in the great war. Until we visit distruction on them like they can't imagine, we'll continue to be the laughing stock of the world. Kill em all and worry about it latter.

less torture, More Executions!

Waterboarding? By what moral standard do we have the right to scare a man to death by holding his head underwater until he’s ready to drown? Or better yet what evidence do we have that proves to the American Public that we haven’t drown many already and listed their deaths in some other category, i.e., rare blood disease? Insofar as I’m concerned, this practice of waterboarding produces profound hate and fear of us as a nation, both in the eyes of our enemies and all the other countries of the world, and it utterly fails to produce the slightest tangible results in respect to gathering reliable information.

First, common sense dictates that once the enemy has been captured he no longer has any dependable intel regarding what our enemies are planning, BECAUSE THEY KNOW HE’S BEEN CAPTURED AND WILL NECESSARILY CHANGE THEIR PLANS! Fer chrisakes, how much brains does it take to figure that out? Secondly, If you don’t get reliable intel from this enemy, (Arab terrorists) immediately after being captured YOU AIN’T EVERY GONNA GET ANY FROM HIM! Why, because everything changes from one day to the next, not to mention this enemy has never demonstrated in any way a pattern of following any logical sequence of battle plans. The fact is, these terrorists are not an organized Army in the conventional sense of the word! The truth is, whatever comes into their crazy twisted brains, on any given day, is what they do! Therefore, what good result could possibly be born out of “BRUTALLY TOURTERING” a prisoner that neither knows anything nor will he be able to gain more intel BECAUSE HE’S LOCKED UP!

So, why bother with waterboarding inasmuch as, we already know it isn’t going to work to start with, a fact, which has been confirmed over and over, again and again, to us by our own General’s! As far as I’m concerned the only reason’s we continue this despicably diabolic practice is out of pure meanness and shear stupidity! How well has that been working out for us? Every single country on the face of this earth now indisputably hates our guts! The only logical conclusion that can possibly result from this obscene stinking behavior is; we will force the world community to join together to stop us, which by the way it appears, they are working on that very thing right now! For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction!

We were once highly respected by all countries as a greatest superpower this world has ever produced, with a sense of fairness and justice for all; now we are hated and feared by everyone! It boils down to who “We the People” elect to govern us as to the result we want to get in the future! I paid $3.09 for gas at the pump last night and it cost me over $70 dollars to fill up my tank. That is the real tactics that our enemies will eventually destroy this country! We’ve grown complacent in everything we do, we elect people with neither the intellect nor the conscience to govern properly. We outsource our own jobs, our kids are “obese” and failing in our schools, our economy stinks for the average worker, we have to illegally import worker’s from Mexico to do our menial labor, labor our own children refuse to do because their to busy playing video games. My only question is, when are we going to take back our country from the elite super rich who are driving us into ruin? I’m sure there are many of my brother Viet Nam Veteran’s on this site that will scream when they read this, and try to discredit and demean me personally, some will threaten to beat me up, as one did last week, other’s will try to tear apart each point I make. But the facts speak for themselves, WHAT IS, IS! I say, stop torturing people, stop this war and stop this madness-gone berserk before we totally destroy our country! Write your congressman for god sakes and complain about what is going on here before this gets any worse!

People you just don't understand. We must do whatever it takes to defeat our enemies. Do you think they are debating if they should use waterboarding on our soldiers. If it will save one soldier I say go for it..........

Let's see, We train our Mitary to fight, kill and win wars to protect our country and then We vilify them when they do so????????

I do NOT think that the USA have lost, like, the Vietnam War because they were too soft on the enemy... that was a total war on all fronts. But that's another topic.

Allowing any form of torture is a horrible thing. I wonder what's going on with you people? You cannot on the one hand be proud of what your country stands for, ethic and moral standards, equality "and justice for all", and on the other hand advocate humiliation and abuse.
That's called hypocrisy for god's sake!

The price of freedom is paid with lives. All peoples who have freed themselves from foreign/colonial rule should know that. The attempt to lower that price by applying humiliating interrogation methods will backfire!

If you believe that there's a war for freedom and democracy going on, do you really think those people will develop an understanding of these concepts if the self-proclaimed "liberators from tyranny" behave in such a gruesome way?

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People you just don't understand. We must do whatever it takes to defeat our enemies.

As someone in the article point out, if we throw morality and honor out the window, then we become no better than our enemies. The practice may be an effective means of obtaining information, but is torture of any kind acceptable? I would say no and the United States and Britain have always condemned regimes that use torture of any kind. I know we're in the moral minefield where we face choices between evils, but some things surely must be beyond the pale. Surely there are things of which we can say, "We do not do that."

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Originally posted by vsaws:
Let's see, We train our Mitary to fight, kill and win wars to protect our country and then We vilify them when they do so????????

I haven't read anywhere that anyone was trying to vilify our military. On the contrary, the news agencies are vilifying this Administration for using "Torture" on prisoner's of war! Opposition will claim these are not POW's they are thugs and terriorists, but the fact remains, we are fighting a "War on Terrior", that is the name of our enemy, and when we capture them they become our prisoner's of the war on terrior! To hell with a play on words, lets talk streight! The fault of "Torture" comes directly from this Administration, and someday they should be held accountable for their actions!

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Originally posted by CMSgt1942:
People you just don't understand. We must do whatever it takes to defeat our enemies. Do you think they are debating if they should use waterboarding on our soldiers. If it will save one soldier I say go for it..........

Chief, I understand THE DESIRE for us to win but at ALL Costs will be just that if OUR tactics are the same as the very culture we're trying to INFLUENCE.

But be that as it may, I'd appreciate the DEBATE more if our leaders that advocate the ENHANCEment of Interrogation Techniques, call it what it is?

I say this "Talk Around the Subject" Rhetoric is what have us in the situations we're in now?

If our leaders have permitted the use of Torture Techniques, don't dress it up, call it and lets debate if we should or shouldn't.

Pretending that Waterboarding isn't torture, though the HISTORICAL Record states otherwise, is beyond disingenuous and arrogant, it's Delusional.

I was hoping the AG nominee would make an argument SIMILAR to yours and others, the Presidential Nominees also.

It's like debating a Race Issue by saying "NoN" White People or "Majority" Americans "Lacking" Darker Pigmentation.

We can't turn back the clock on the ruling of the procedure, UNLESS we address the procedure in a Debate on the technique(s) in question.

"Enhanced", What the H3LL does that mean?

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If you believe that there's a war for freedom and democracy going on, do you really think those people will develop an understanding of these concepts if the self-proclaimed "liberators from tyranny" behave in such a gruesome way?

Again, if we use the enemy's methods, do not we become like him? And if we're not the good guys, then who are we?

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Originally posted by vsaws:
Let's see, We train our Mitary to fight, kill and win wars to protect our country and then We vilify them when they do so????????

How are we villifying the Military?

MILITARY FOLKS are the main ones Spearheading that we SHOULDN'T BE TORTURING; Powell, Graham, Warner, Webb, McCain...

Not to mention the AUTHOR of the Article that's the topic of this thread!

Unfortunately, Your "Strawman" is on the OTHER side of your argument.

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Originally posted by TPCAT:

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If you believe that there's a war for freedom and democracy going on, do you really think those people will develop an understanding of these concepts if the self-proclaimed "liberators from tyranny" behave in such a gruesome way?

Again, if we use the enemy's methods, do not we become like him? And if we're not the good guys, then who are we?

Maybe the guys making the argument for utilizing "Torture" are the SAME guys that REALLY, Really, REally... believe you can just be a "LITTLE" Pregnant?

I was taught you don't beat Evil with "Evil", you don't stop prostitution by being a "Better" Ho or by TORTURING Pimps.

I added the "Torturing Pimps" for flava and I do understand the "Desire" to do just that

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Originally posted by vsaws:
Let's see, We train our Mitary to fight, kill and win wars to protect our country and then We vilify them when they do so????????

We expect our military to fight, kill, and win wars (along with alot of other stuff now), but WE (in the generic sense) don't vilify them for it. We applaud them for it. The basic mission of the US military is kill people and blow stuff up. Everyone (with a brain) supports that mission. Torture is not the American way. Assaulting prisoners is not the American way. I'm not an expert on LOAC, but I thought it addresses how to handle captured personnel. Try them for war crimes and then execute them, but don't torture them.

"Unlawful Combatants. Unlawful combatants are individuals who directly participate in hostilities without being authorized by governmental authority or under international law to do so. For example, bandits who rob and plunder and civilians who attack a downed airman are unlawful combatants. Unlawful combatants who engage in hostilities violate LOAC and become lawful targets. They may be killed or wounded and, if captured, may be tried as war criminals for their LOAC violations."

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/wars/a/loac_2.htm

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Originally posted by MarkAntney:

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Originally posted by TPCAT:

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If you believe that there's a war for freedom and democracy going on, do you really think those people will develop an understanding of these concepts if the self-proclaimed "liberators from tyranny" behave in such a gruesome way?

Again, if we use the enemy's methods, do not we become like him? And if we're not the good guys, then who are we?

Maybe the guys making the argument for utilizing "Torture" are the SAME guys that REALLY, Really, REally... believe you can just be a "LITTLE" Pregnant?

I was taught you don't beat Evil with "Evil", you don't stop prostitution by being a "Better" Ho or by TORTURING Pimps.

I added the "Torturing Pimps" for flava and I do understand the "Desire" to do just that

To often I try to hard at being logical, BUT I see the logic in your arguement. YES let's start "Torturing Pimps", agreed. That will drive down the cost of "Ho-ing" which will increase the state of "Relaxment" in those who govern our country, and perhaps that will stop this maddness! How's that for sound reasoning? Hell, I'm just an old marine grunt, give me a bottle of whiskey and a good Ho or two and I forget all about the chit thats going on around me! Great idea.

Semper Fi brother's

waterboarding is nothing compared to what they'd do to us.

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Maybe the guys making the argument for utilizing "Torture" are the SAME guys that REALLY, Really, REally... believe you can just be a "LITTLE" Pregnant?

Got that one right in one Mark. Whatever we do, we really cannot or should not, go down the torture road. In the past, both our Governments have condemned those using these methods. Somebody above spoke of hypocrisy--well how much more hypocritical can you get?

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Hell, I'm just an old marine grunt, give me a bottle of whiskey and a good Ho or two and I forget all about the chit thats going on around me! Great idea.

Hang in there Dano, even old marine grunts understand that if you use the enemy's methods you become no different than he is. Like I said, if we ain't the good guys, then we're nothing.

About six-in-ten people---in every culture---are willing to commit torture, if ordered to do so by an authority figure. See the Milgram Experiment for details.

That is why this thread has aroused such passion:

• The highest authorities in America have authorized torture.
• The majority of people are therefore inclined to embrace torture.
• Now these people desperately want to be reassured that torture is moral.

But to state it plainly: torture is morally wrong, no matter who authorizes it.

That is why it is morally necessary, for the highest authorities, to forbid torture.

That is a fundamental moral principle that Lincoln, McCain, and Nance, all understand.

I am glad that so many of America's warriors are taking a public stand against torture.

This would be interesting if there wasn't already a 116 comment thread that's been running for two days on the exact same topic. Ought to waterboard the military.com tech that put this thread up.