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Military.com Forums Hot Topics & Current Events In the News Dems Slam Blackwater Immunity|
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Member |
RE: http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,155105,00.html
No one should be granted immunity when the investigation is just getting started. That's just bad policy and equivalent to saying that some people are above the law. It's wrong on so many counts it's hard to know where to start. |
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New Member |
This is getting away with murder. If a private security contractor killed 17 American civilians, you would see them put in jail for the rest of their lives and the contractor shut down.
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New Member |
wow, i'm sure this strengthened(sarcasm) our already shaky ties with the Iraqi gov't that has said time and time again they want blackwater out.
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If a tree falls in a forest and lands on a politician, even if you can't hear the tree or the screams, I'll bet you'd at least hear the applause. Paul Tindale  |
Having been an investigator, believe that the reason they gave these guys immunity was two fold:
a. They wanted to get the higher ups. Thu guys who pulled the triggers are small potatoes. b. Sloppy investigative work and a desire to achieve instant resolution. Have a good day!~!   |
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New Member |
How do we really know they were "civilians"? I find it difficult to believe so many former special forces type veterans would resort to killing "civilians" without cause. Remember, the MEDIA paints the picture they want you to see, that is a fact!
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Member |
That's right. Everyone out on Iraq's streets is a secret jihadist or insurgent. No room for ordinary folks who live there going about their business before being shot up from 50 meters - half a football field - away. All those people interviewed after the incident and the documented casualties - all faked in order to make us look bad. The news reports quoting people who were there - that's just the evil liberal MSM telling stories. Our own people who were on the scene immediately afterward and didn't find any evidence of an attack on the BW people? Probably Democrats or people who hate America and want us to lose. Nothing to see here. Everyone go home and leave the mercenaries to their completely unaccountable and now-immunized activities. We can trust them to show the utmost restraint, right?  |
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Member |
Because terrorists are not stupid enough (for the most part, there are a lot of exceptions) to go head to head, without "overwhelming" (Sarcasm, our soldiers kick butt) odds. That's one way you can make an educated guess... Also terrorists mainly use IEDs, suicide bombers and hit and run tactics... |
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New Member |
Two valid opinions resulted from my previous post, thank you.
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Member |
Senator Pat Leahy was annoyed with the Reagan administration's war on terrorism in the 1980s. At the time he was vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee.
"Leahy," allegedly threatened to sabotage classified strategies he didn't like. Leahy ‘inadvertently' disclosed a top-secret communications intercept during a 1985 television interview. "The intercept … made possible the capture of the Arab terrorists who had hijacked the cruise ship Achille Lauro and murdered American citizens. …" "The reports cost the life of at least one Egyptian operative involved in the operation." In July 1987, it was reported that Leahy leaked secret information about a 1986 covert operation planned by the Reagan administration to topple Libya's Moammar Gaddhafi. U.S. intelligence officials said Leahy, along with the Republican panel chairman, sent a written threat to expose the operation directly to then-CIA Director William Casey. Weeks later, news of the secret plan turned up in the Washington Post, causing it to be aborted. A year later, as the Senate was preparing to hold hearings on the Iran-Contra scandal, Leahy had to resign his Intelligence Committee post after he was caught leaking secret information to a reporter. He should have been indicted, tried and sentenced. Leahy's Iran-Contra leak was considered to be one of the most serious breaches of secrecy in the Intelligence Committee's 10-year history. But that was before Senator Richard Shelby leaked that we were tapping Osama bin Laden's satellite phone. Bin Laden immediately stopped using it, denying us the opportunity to find and kill the s.o.b. Cicero said: "A nation can survive its fools, even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within … for the traitor appears not a traitor. … He rots the soul of a nation … he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist." |
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Highly Experienced Member |
Nevermind that overthrowing foriegn governments is and was against US and International Law..........
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Experienced Member |
OH? |
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Ten day suspension for violation of TOS 6ii. 05 Feb Gypsysnipe |
No matter where you stand on this issue...it's clear that giving immunity to anyone makes a mockery of the "we're spreading democracy" claim.
In a democracy, nobody gets blanket immunity when people have been killed (whether those killed deserved it or not). In a democracy, investigations are done, killers are prosecuted. If they are innocent, or if they have just cause to kill, then they are released. If they are guilty they are dealt with according to LAW. Only in lawless, non-democratic regimes are killings not investigated and killers given blanket immunity. |
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Highly Experienced Member |
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the overthrow of foriegn governments IS illegal - then again, the whole Iran-Contra affair was just one big illegal treasonous Republican wet-dream gone awry.
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Member |
This is what I find troubling. The initial incident report suggests that the Blackwater guards were unprovoked. Then a later report suggests that they acted appropriately. Finally, an Iraqi report finds that the guards were unprovoked. Obviously, the initial incident report alerted officals of a potential violation, which would have occured prior to any immunity offerings due to the fact that no knowledge yet existed that might suggest that the use of such investigative tactics was required. In the follow up reports I can understand the use of immunity in attempting to draw out specific information, but to offer immunity to all involved serves no such purpose. In fact, an offer of immunity like this serves no purpose but to grant immunity. So we have a greater problem now then we started with. We either have incompetant officials or criminal officials in charge of this investigation. Of course we shouldn't jump to any conclusions regarding the guilt or innocence of the guards themselves, but the actions of these officials is another story altogether. And now the question becomes, "Why should we care that this incident is properly investigated?" Certainly many individuals would rather assume that the actions of these individuals were simply appropriate and be done with it. Personally, I think that this opinion is acceptable coming from potential peers of those guards, while it is entirely unacceptable coming from those tasked with maintaining discipline within the ranks and direction on the battlefield. But then, I understand that mainly civilian leaders control this aspect of our conflict. Having worked with civilian personel while a Marine, I find it difficult to believe that their presence on the battlefield would not cause unnecessary problems. Having those civilian personel there frightens me even more, as I consider the damage that they might inadvertently cause. Having them there and beyond reproach is simply terrifying. Disciplined warriors would be required if we were to prevent an unnecessary backlash from the Iraqi citizenry unlucky enough to be caught between our forces and those loyal to Saddam or simply opposed to our presense. To instill that discipline, commanders must be able to punish their warriors appropriately. Placing men on the battlefield who can not be disciplined not only leaves those individuals free to reak havok about Iraq, but their actions may also encourage similar behavior from otherwise disciplined warriors. This oversight alone could be responsible for our continuing struggle to restore order to Iraq. |
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New Member |
Whatever happened to,..." kill em all, and let God sort em out"? That was out motto in the Marines!!!!!!!!!!
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Highly Experienced Member |
It's nice to see how you fellow Americans will sit here and bad-mouth, convict, etc these men. Any of you ever walked in their shoes? Ever operated on those streets with the mission they are doing?
How come it is that everytime there are a number of Iraqis killed in a fight they are all civilians and our guys are the bad guys? Some of you make me sick.  |
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New Member |
I second Goldenwings motion.
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Highly Experienced Member |
Shooting up cars with 2 old nuns isn't exactly the American way..........
I have no pity for Blackwater. The fact that immunity was given BEFORE the investigation is what has a number of folks pizzed off. I prefer to think that the State Dept. is letting the small fish loose in order to catch the big fish as continued incidents such as these are indicative of a much larger problem that needs solved.
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New Member |
How many innocent people died in WW2, should we convict our pilots who burned Berlin to the ground, or dropped The Bombs on Japan.
What people tend to forget is war is hell, and mistakes happend, especially in bagdad, I assume from what i read in CNN that one there trucks jsut back fired and they over reacted, or CNN LIES!!!! |
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Military.com Forums Hot Topics & Current Events In the News Dems Slam Blackwater Immunity
