RE: http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,152239,00.html

christ.. what a mess!

Diplomatically speaking, this really puts the US between a rock and a hard place.

What do we do? Support or condemn these attacks? Ignore them?

Both are considered allies on the GWoT. Is the PKK currently considered a terrorist organization? How do the Kurds feel about the PKK?

Very interesting problem here.

quote:

Originally posted by mineame:
Diplomatically speaking, this really puts the US between a rock and a hard place.

What do we do? Support or condemn these attacks? Ignore them?

Both are considered allies on the GWoT. Is the PKK currently considered a terrorist organization? How do the Kurds feel about the PKK?

Very interesting problem here.

We are in they're house and have been friends for years. I think Iranian rebels are trying to damage our relationship, trying to divide use. Turkey has a right to protect its people as much as we do. Pray and work for peace. If this group is acting outside the Iranian governments wishes and supporting terrorists in Iraq, Turkey maybe doing us a favor.

oh Turkey, Turkey, Turkey... not a good move.

I appreciate their position on the PKK rebels; but, wouldn't it have been better for Turkey's parliament to encourage a dialog instead of a cross-border incursion? They're just adding more fuel to the fire.

At least they're staying on their side of the border for now. If they're that hot about going after the PKK maybe their troops can take up positions along the Iranian, Syrian, Saudi Arabian borders and let us manage the Turkey/Iraq border. That should make a bunch of people nervous.

quote:

Originally posted by GroovyLady:
oh Turkey, Turkey, Turkey... not a good move.

I appreciate their position on the PKK rebels; but, wouldn't it have been better for Turkey's parliament to encourage a dialog instead of a cross-border incursion? They're just adding more fuel to the fire.

At least they're staying on their side of the border for now. If they're that hot about going after the PKK maybe their troops can take up positions along the Iranian, Syrian, Saudi Arabian borders and let us manage the Turkey/Iraq border. That should make a bunch of people nervous.

Perhaps this goes along with the rise in nationalism. Old Ataturk must be rolling in his grave. Secular is giving away to the mullahs, albeit at a slow pace, and not as fiercely Islamic as in other countries. Perhaps they are longing for a return of the Ottoman Empire and the Caliphs.

The Kurds are a problem, and it does not look like an amicable resolution will be coming anytime soon. The Kurds, on the other hand, need to be careful about poking Turkey in the eye. The general Turkish population is not with the Kurds. Cross border operations may bring out the full wrath of the Turks. With such a large Kurdish population, Turkey can not stand by and let a large portion of the country break away.

Turkey is a bit schizophrenic in determining in what culture and century they belong in. The long to join the EU, but haven’t put away their fears of the West. Turkey can be on one hand modern in culture and outlook, then almost medieval. Turkey could be a moderating effect on the mid-East, or it could join them and change the balance. Either way, a country to watch. Have a good day!~!

The news coming out of south western asia has been terrible, to say the least, for the past few years. It doesnt even matter where the information is initially coming from, it all seems bad and as a rule only seems to get worse.

Expect this to get worse as well. Not only for the US and our allies, but for others as well.

Apparently, no one knows how to get along, play nice and share.

quote:

Originally posted by mineame:
Diplomatically speaking, this really puts the US between a rock and a hard place.

What do we do? Support or condemn these attacks? Ignore them?

Both are considered allies on the GWoT. Is the PKK currently considered a terrorist organization? How do the Kurds feel about the PKK?

Very interesting problem here.

"Turkey is shelling suspected Kurdish rebel camps across the border in northern Iraq, a newspaper reported ..." WHAT NEWSPAPER REPORTED THIS, THE BINLADIN STAR?

I've been waiting for this for a long time to happen I just wonder why it took soooo long?

I'd have to side with Turkey inasmuch as they are a very dangerous military force and will in the end win. No sense betting on the wrong dog! WTF they must want their share of the OIL money too! I'd like to sign up for that my damn self. Like I always say, follow the money trail back to the crooked politician's off shore bank account - they've all got one. HAHAHAHAHA SEMPER FI BROTHERS

Let's see. The Turks don't want the Armenian extermination back in World War I officially listed as genocide. In 2003 when Operation Iraqi Freedom commenced, I don't remember Turkey giving us permission to use our bases there to invade northern Iraq nor use those airbases to conduct offensive air operations from. Correct me if I'm wrong but why are we letting the Turks dictate what policies we are to conduct?

quote:

Originally posted by HRDKAS:
The news coming out of south western asia has been terrible, to say the least, for the past few years. It doesnt even matter where the information is initially coming from, it all seems bad and as a rule only seems to get worse.

Expect this to get worse as well. Not only for the US and our allies, but for others as well.

Apparently, no one knows how to get along, play nice and share.

Of course they don't know how to play nice in that part of the world, for gXX sakes they've been at war there for 10,000 years give or take. If we had one brain cell that still was firing we'd know better then to get involved with or in anything to do with the middle east, just take their oil, pay for it and leave them alone. I did a study of Iraq a year ago, they have been invaded by over 20 different countries (dictatorships and Kingships) lived in oppression most of this 10,000 years, ignorant and poverty stricten, yet they always make a comeback and kick out the foreign invaders and unfortunately we'll be the next on the list to get throw out of their country! Then they will return to their own form of government (dictatorship) and like it and keep killing each other. History is of no value unless we learn from it! Henry Ford Sr.

quote:

Originally posted by jagdbaer:
Let's see. The Turks don't want the Armenian extermination back in World War I officially listed as genocide. In 2003 when Operation Iraqi Freedom commenced, I don't remember Turkey giving us permission to use our bases there to invade northern Iraq nor use those airbases to conduct offensive air operations from. Correct me if I'm wrong but why are we letting the Turks dictate what policies we are to conduct?

Because they can!

Dan,

My comment that; "Apparently, no one knows how to get along, play nice and share.", was merely me being facetious.
I know that there a serious issues, lives, economies and world peace at stake here.

If I thought for a minute that I could solve the problems or that my opinions would be used to implement policies, I would take a great deal more thought and care.

Frankly, my elderly grandmothers advice, insisting that I follow jesus' teaching's more closely and make sure my soul is saved may not be a bad idea at all.

I'd like to nominate this line for the understatement of the year award!

quote:

Originally posted by SLDO:
Turkey is a bit schizophrenic in determining in what culture and century they belong in.

I think they're still recovering from losing the Ottoman Empire.

It's not all Kurds who are causing Turkey's heartburn - just the PKK. Most Kurds do want inclusion in the Turkish government; but, they also want to stop being discriminated against and getting persecuted because they listen to Kurdish music or post up a sign with the letters Q or W in it.

If Turkey's going to go into Iraq they can chase the PKK all the way to the Iranian border.

quote:

The paper said the government would impose an information blackout on its preparations for a possible cross-border offensive.

Sounds like a revolutionary relationship between the Turkish media and their best interest for their own national defense.

I am inclined to see the Turkist POV in protecting their borders from invasion and their right to do so as a soverign nation. The PKK and Al Quaeda, on the other hand, must be dealt with deadly force by someone. A violent death is the only form of diplomacy that terorist groups understand.

I read the article and I just have to say. WTF!!
"If parliament approves, the military could choose to immediately launch an operation or wait to see if the United States and its allies, jolted by the Turkish action, decide to crack down on the rebels." Are they trying to say if the US or our allies do something they will take matters into thier own hands? Far be it for me to say but this is a F uped way to say help us quickly. I agree with HRDKAS on this one that it will hurt everyone. And it even seems that lately that all Iraqi civilians are really the ones between a rock and a hard place so to speak. Seems like all neighboring countries have been coming into Iraq and causing problems. Who's next to cause problems in Iraq? Kuwait because they are still sore at the Iraqis when they invaded them and murdered many of thier military?

Jeez, dont we have enough problems already?!

quote:

Originally posted by jt_def187:
Jeez, dont we have enough problems already?!

\

Apparentely not...

Is someone out there surprised by these events? If you are then I suggest crawling back underneath that rock and letting those who have been paying attention deal with this.

At this moment, every nation that feels it might get over on our country is going to try. The Turkish are trying by threatening to make matters inside Iraq a little worse than they already are, but in doing so they are making one dangerous assumption.

Turkey is assuming in making this threat that either we will respond and appease them or that they will defeat any opposition in Northern Iraq before counter-attacks can be launched into Turkey. This is something that I don't see happening, given the nature of the organizations we're talking about. I believe in this case that Turkey would lose out as their actions merely brought the conflict to a quick boiling point, rather than resolving anything.

Now, the Turkish government can do this, if it so chooses. Perhaps we will respond and perhaps not, but they better be aware that those they attack will extract a toll from within Turkey itself, unless they are extremely lucky and these Kurds don't react as they have on every other occasion.

I am to a point TinyTerror. True the Turks are making things worse since they can not sit still long enough for anyone to say, "What is the problem that you want to chase the PKK?" Even if they are being attacked by the PKK for the territory. But the man behind the book, THE ART OF WAR(which I have been reading the revised version, not the huge and confusing full version wich is on my to do list when I get the funds for) said this. "QUOTE. One who rushes to battle without reason will face public scrutany and a possible defeat if attack is on enemy soil. END QUOTE" Turkey should stop now before things get even worse in Iraq before we or other coalition forces have to put a stop to it. Otherwise innocent civilians will be hurt, if not allready since they started to artillary strike certain areas.

Sun Tzu might also ask if these Turks actually know their enemy. I'd suggest that they do not know much more about their enemy than that they are lobbing shells into Turkey upon occasion and that they are Kurdish. Beyond that, what might have been understood about these Kurds from Saddam's era is likely to be of little use today.

Truth is, the Kurdish have banded together and strengthened their position, which is primarily meant to protect them from others within Iraq, but they would as likely use it to defend against an attack from Turkey. In fact, the Kurds may take this as a needed opportunity to assert their autonomy.

quote:

Originally posted by FireflyJMS2:
RE: http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,152239,00.html

christ.. what a mess!

I think the president is dropping the ball on this.
lets get the rebels ourselves. if the turks attak and start a war with the kurds it wil set ack all our men have worked hard for.