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Military.com Forums Hot Topics & Current Events In the News The Twentifirst Century Inquisition.|
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RE: http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,151752,00.html
The good Bishops of the Spanish Inquisition would never have used torture either.  |
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Highly Experienced Member Old Fart #00  |
This ain't the Spanish Inquisition and you ain't Torquemada either! Have you taken your meds today?
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RE: http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,151752,00.html
Their is an active attempt to change the definition of torture as it was intended to be interpreted by the Geneva Convention. This case is being made by subordinates of Alberto Gonzales, who is known to have led the charge in altering our government's position in this matter. We also know that he never had reason to fear the repercussions of such a change, having never worn the uniform himself. Sadly, too many hear a comment like this, and fail to understand what is meant by the word "repercussion". Too often they assume that this merely refers to the individual attacks that our Marines, Soldiers, Sailors, and Airmen might face on the battlefield. Rarely do we come into contact with an individual who realizes that such a change may affect the battlefield itself and can force us to alter our strategy unnecessarily. Like it or not, changes like this affect more than our ability to collect information from combatants. We may choose to assume that it does not, or that all those who fight us are so evil that this change in tactics could not possibly make them worse, but then we would ignoring what we know from personal experience, that a person becomes accepting of certain practices through familiarization. In bootcamp, and throughout our time in the military, we are constantly learning to adopt some new "talent" as our own. We know before we actually demonstrate an ability that we are capable of such a thing, or at least believe that we are, but we are not fully confident in that talent until we have used it. Our enemy is no different, regardless of what they were taught as children. They too must practice a thing before they are confident in its use. Or they can be shown that such a thing may be done to them if they are captured, in which case they may become all the more willing to use any given talent. When that talent is a weapon, employed in an effort to prevent detection and by doing so to prevent "torture", we find that its use may increase substantially. The excessive use of "landmines" may thus be explained as a reaction to the threat of torture, in addition to several other weapons and tactics I won't go into here. Of course, you would be more familiar with the modern term for landmine, IED. IED's are used, not only to inflict mass cassualties which can be accomplished through the use of hand held weaponry just as easily, but also to prevent one from being identified and possibly captured, if not killed. |
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"I love the smell of Brown Water in the morning" |
Well I guess that clears that up; Bush caused the Spanish Inquisition. Hey, Major have about doing an expose on Sodom & Gomorah? I'm sure you lefties can find a Bush fingerprint or two. |
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"I love the smell of Brown Water in the morning" |
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I'm saying that our use of certain techniques, identified as torture or not, do have an impact on the conduct of our war. The excessive use of IED's, that have an impact without forcing the enemy to risk capture, are an example of that impact. We train our warriors to meet the demands of the battlefield, including those imposed as a direct result of our enemy's tactics. Our enemy does the same. |
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 Torture? Who said anything about torture? Where I come from we call it "friendly persuasion."This message has been edited. Last edited by: bwf27, |
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New Member |
The current POTUS tortures us all whenever he speaks and thus torturing the English language.
 Vote [~SPAM~]! This message has been edited. Last edited by: <dmuhler>, |
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suspended 90 days as of 5/19/09 |
Was Senator McCain 'tortured' while the Viets had him. They fixed his broken bones, no?
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Ecce Agnus Dei |
Helez:---Your Bio says that you worked at/ran the Brig for 20 years. Okay...Let's pretend we go back to those days (I went to Chaser School at the Okinawa Brig) and you have Red,Yellow and Green inmates. The green inmates are allowed out of their cells and permitted to do "work" details (sweep/mop,etc.). The Red inmates are never let out, because they have "bad behaviour" traits. Some inmates need "persuasion" before they "get-it"---Good Behaviour is rewarded!--
 Now fast forward to present day Kabul and/or Baghdad. You are a Major again and a Corporal and his Fire Team capture a guy they saw running behind an alley near a Hospital. He has some Det Cord, some caps, a pliers-wire cutter, and you have no Arabic translator and no "Truth serum" meds.,,,Are you going to give this guy some milk and cookies and call for an ACLU lawyer...? OORR...Do you (as a officer who took an Oath) tie/strap/tape him into a chair and get the info you need to save the lives and structure in/of the Hospital...? He (the bad guy) knows that the pain will stop when/if he tells you the info you need. There are basically 2 answers to the above scenario: The "Philosopher-Peacenik" answer and the one that a man who raised his right hand and took an Oath to defend ..."against all enemies foriegn and domestic.." should do! |
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NO..., The North Vietnamese were humanitarian ROLE MODELS, just ask Hanoi Jane Fonda... She'll attest to their humanitarian treatment toward our captured Warriors... I believe, according to Hanoi Jane..., our criminal Warriors were provided "three hots & a cot..." Now, POPSIQ..., Based on your postings, there's no doubt in my mind that you operate on the same Brain Wave Frequency as your peers "much regarded" Hanoi Jane Fonda..., POPSIQ..., a noted member of the SHEEPLE FLOCK ! |
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Member |
Lets nuke the planet. its the only way we can be sure we kill off all the terrorist.
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60 day suspension for Verbal/disruptive posts attacking the integrity of US military. 4/19/2009 by OldArmyLove |
You have no translator? He's not going to say anything BECAUSE HE DOESN'T SPEAK ENGLISH. Also, if he's got the det cord/caps how is the hospital in danger? |
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New Member |
While I can see the point you are trying to make, I myself am of 2 minds. We know from past captures that torture is used by the other side to get the answers they need. So the whole "If we don't do it they wont do it" belief doesn't hold water in my book. BUT, on the other side if enough torture is applied a person will say anything the person applying it wants to hear to make it stop weather its the truth or a lie. I can see the methods being used if the person applying them KNOWS that the one being totured does have intel that will save more american lives. Another point. People keep bringing up the "Geneva Convention". Do those people Really understand it or know how it came about? While America has signed this document, The Insurgents have not. Therefore we are not required "UNDER" the Geneva convention to follow its policy. The only time the "Geneva Convention" comes into play is if BOTH sides have signed accords. We only do so in order to hold and show the "MORAL" high ground. |
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Member |
Wow! The Major's really out there, no?
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Ecce Agnus Dei |
You never did tell us---Are you a 90 year old liberal, or a liberal born in 1990. "This Member" No Bio...
Okay...I'll t y p e s l o w l y. Because most folks that do demo jobs have stuff left over...and the reference to the ACLU lawyer was to set the stage for "Evidence"...and the idea of not having a translator was the standard "excuse" of attorneys when suspects are read their "Moranda" rights, in English. BTW-Most of the people over there understand some english- (British and American oil explores/companies have been there for years)- Especially when M-16s are pointed at them...BUT, just so you are happy---let's say that there is an Arabic translator, but the running away suspect will not talk...tick-tock. The post was for Helez...Not for you. Helez says that he is a retired Marine Major, and I was trying to get him to recall the times when he had Gold Oak Leaves on his collar and men depended on his leadership. |
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suspended 90 days as of 5/19/09 |
WTF does Jane Fonda have to do with this topic? Sen. Mc Cain advocated torturing prisoners to get information. I wonder if he was tortured when he was a prisoner. Fair question? Looking for a factual response. I can find your stuff in the toilet every morning. I've got plenty all by myself, yours adds nothing but odor.. |
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New Member |
I guess that the definition of torture is relative to the position of the observer or, as Bill Clinton said, "depends of what the definition of is is".
The proponents of the Spanish Inquisition defined their "techniques" pretty much to what today's Evangelical Protestants define as "tough love". Therefore, Dom Tomás de Torquemada defined his "techniques" as "methods of Christion love designed to bring a particular spirit back to God". But then a 12 year old school boy can often place an acuisation that his teachers are torturing him by assigning homework on Friday afternoon, due first thing Monday morning. The danger is that we had best better be prepared for our enemies to use the same or worse techniques at obtaining information as we do with their personnel. |
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"The Cheerleader!" |
roger that!
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Military.com Forums Hot Topics & Current Events In the News The Twentifirst Century Inquisition.
