RE: http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,146097,00.html

You know the real sadness of this situation is you take you men and women and then don't train them properly then there are going to be children who are still cowboys and Indians in their their backyard. Their unable to be harmed in anyway. The Real question is, What are we going to do about it?

Not everyone is as strong mentally as everyone else. I try to encourage my soldiers to talk about there problems if not with me then with someone there close to. We had one soldier try to kill themself in Iraq while I was there just because they wanted to go home earlier. The thing is they were going home in 2 months anyway. They ended up wounding themself and another soldier. Now there in jail. We need good NCO's to try and spot this before it happens. There's always someone to talk to.

Leave it to the AP to put their negative spin on the war, just because they can when the real story is the soldiers. The Prseident said the war would not be over quickly. The AP states "force strained by the longer-than-expected". This is only true if you have not been paying attention. I was an ER medic in the early 80's in Germany, and probably twice a month we had "attempts" come in to the ER. The military is a society, check those numbers against the civilian population and see who takes better care of their people. Any number of deaths is a sad thing. But I submit to you if you took the same population numbers of a US region and compared them to the Military, you'd find civilian numbers higher.
God Bless our servicemen and women, and God Bless our President!

I find it interesting to note that it was 1981 when suicides were last at such a high rate. Notice that they were at their lowest in 2001. Historically, 1981 was a tough year for the Army - and the nation as a whole. If we remember how it was in 2001, up to September 10, I think it is fair to say that those were fairly care-free days for this country.

In 1981, this country had gone through a lot of economic and political problems since about President Nixon's resignation. And the military did not escape the afteraffects.

From 9/11 to now, this country has prospered, but slowly, insidious affects may be occuring in the military, and the nation as a whole, that raise stress levels to the point that suicide seems to be a good option for more people. One would think that with the alledgely superior intervention strategys of the 21st century (compared to 1981), suicides would be a bit less. But counseling and the like seem to not have made much of a dent. To me, this says that something is majorly wrong with this picture. I'm not sure what, but it deserves close watching.

You know I never understood this part of the WAR. We had people trying to do themselves in, but failed. If you really wanted to kill yourself you would. I'm sorry, but you can call me cold hearted if you want. These people who are suicidal or just seeking attention are a real danger to the men and women around them. I sure as hell don't want to be around a ticking time bomb when he decides he wants to shoot himself on a patrol or on roof watch.

They need to say "hey i want to talk to the chaplain or I request mass." If your chain of command fells to do that then your blood is on their hands, but come on killing yourself isn't the answer. Your family members are goin to pretty pissed off. Course they will blame the military and all that, but really they are upset at you. Guess it wouldn't matter anyways cus you took the easy way out.

Could it be that the kinder and more humane basic training does not weed out those who can't handle the stress of military service? Those who can't have discipline imposed upon them can't stand up to the rigors of combat.

quote:

Originally posted by CMSgt1942:
Could it be that the kinder and more humane basic training does not weed out those who can't handle the stress of military service? Those who can't have discipline imposed upon them can't stand up to the rigors of combat.

Maybe the Army does by lowering their standards. But of course when i was in Boot Camp we had a few guys that would try to hang theirselves with bootlaces or shoot themselves on the range. Then they would be on suicide watch and we would make fun of them for failing and call them pieces of $H!T. Bet their parents were real proud of them. Couldn't even make it 3 months in boot camp.

Its true,maybe the army should have tougher basic for their recruits.You very rarely hear or a Marine trying to do him self in,as a matter of fact,the Marine would do him self in by charging a machine gun nest or taking a grenade for a buddy,or so on get my point?No insult intended towards to other branches.God bless our troops and Mr.Bush

This is the media putting a negative attachment to the story. The fact is, these people may very well have committed suicide in civilian life. I have known people who have killed themselves over divorce, drug use, family problems, money problems, etc. Their occupations were vast. It makes no difference whether you are in the military or in civilian life, suicide is there. My own personal feeling is that it is an unforgiveable sin, therefore I would never entertain the idea even though I have had most of the problems I previously listed. Also, I believe it takes a stronger person to continue on and work through the problems until solved. It is easy to give up. I had a close friend commit suicide over a divorce and he left a young son behind. What that young boy agonized over for years was awful. In my head, I could never forgive my friend for what he did to his son, leaving him to deal with all that. Those that have taken the easy way out should think of the collateral damage.

I tried to find newer data in a quick Google search, but the report below says that the Marines actually suffer a HIGHER suicide rate than the Army. As I stated before, this bears close watching, as it really gets to the morale of all of our forces - and our nation. Where do the forces come from? The People. If the People are hurting, it will hurt (to some degree) those who serve in any of the armed services, as the forces are dervived from the body politic - the People.

Our people are wearying of the Iraq war, and the whole "war on Islamic radicals." And they wearied in 1944 in that war. How it will all turn out, who can say?
Marine suicides rise 29%

quote:

Originally posted by itgetzgood:
I tried to find newer data in a quick Google search, but the report below says that the Marines actually suffer a HIGHER suicide rate than the Army.
Marine suicides rise 29%

This article here was from February of 2005. And it said 31 Marines committed suicide in 2004. How is that higher than 99 suicides by the Army here recently. There are no facts stating that more Marines kill theirselves than Army. Find some more recent data not an article from 2005.

I believe the points previously posted by the Commander are right on the mark!!!

quote:

Originally posted by CMSgt1942:
Could it be that the kinder and more humane basic training does not weed out those who can't handle the stress of military service? Those who can't have discipline imposed upon them can't stand up to the rigors of combat.

I believe you are very correct on this one Chief Master Sgt...

Depression is a product of the total sum of one's bad environment. It isn't just the deployment, it is also the society in which we created in the last two or three decades. It is easy to see the marrages that get strained on a first deployment, just imagin what a second, third, or fourth deployment will do. It has also to do with one's outlook on the mission. If you don't feel supported from the home front, you just don't feel good about yourself.

My heart goes out to the family's who lost someone in the military. It is sad to say, in my opinon that someone will him/her themself because they can't take the military's deployments. The military is cut out for certain people, if you can follow with the objectives then you're ok, if not then don't join.

AMEN BROTHER

Detection before hand I suspect would go a great distance to prevent.
The old suck it up and drive on, sorry does not work, it just puts off the end result.
One suicide can lead to others doing it, in a cascade effect.
Lack of control of self, distance from family and friends. Hopelessness contributes, but also reminders of past mistakes, errors, dead friends and more. Grief counseling may help. Traumatic events at home and while deployed.
Knowing the signs of a buddy that is about to fall apart, such as drinking to much, suicidal thoughts, no longer happy doing what he/she normally is happy doing and other signs/symptoms of a person who is on the edge, the information needs to be shared!
Detection is more than just some shrink, it is buddies, family, command, self, chaplain and mores obligation to get a soldier help when they are about to have a break down. For me, one soldiers suicide can cloud your life for decades later. It effects not the soldier, but friends, family, and others. Old statement about it happens in 3s may apply? How could he/she hate me so much, or not trust me so much, to not tell me! Or they tell you, but you do not realize how serious they was? Or what the signs/symptoms was, and you did not follow through, guilt can be a serious problem.

Follow up on someone is a major thing. If someone talks of suicide, make sure they got help, do not assume they did, people do not go in and make appointments, mental disorder is not a way to get promoted at least people think that. Therapy and like needs to be less stigmatized. Maybe more peer counseling?
If someone talks of suicide, make sure they get help, I know some might say it will destroy someone career to be seen by a counselor, but. If your a Vets, and you can not talk to your command and buddies, go to the local Military Veterans Club, their is people who have I suspect gone through the same things.
Support network at home, spouse who work together to make sure things are good back home. It is hard on all when someone is deployed. Kids who miss dad/mom, to spouses who wander or just need help themselves.

Physical injuries are easy to see and treat, but mental ones are not as easy, but they are there. If you have to stay up all night, talking to them, letting them know you care, and would wish them to stay alive, then do it!

quote:

I had a close friend commit suicide over a divorce and he left a young son behind. What that young boy agonized over for years was awful. In my head, I could never forgive my friend for what he did to his son, leaving him to deal with all that. Those that have taken the easy way out should think of the collateral damage.

Well said, the act of suicide is the most self centered thing a person can do. The suicide person is thinking nothing of the heartache the familiy will deal with for a lifetime.

Subject Matter/Language Adult!

P-Suicide:

So she cheated on you,
gave you an incurable disease
Emptied your bank account
Had you arrested for DV
Took your kid(s) away
Told your friends lies
and now they hate you.

Do not give her the joy
of killing you to!
So put the gun down,
the pills away,
stop annoying that cop,
driving fast,
drinking like a fish.
and piss her off by living!

2006
(DV=domestic violence)
(Above goes both ways, I am male so wrote from the male perspective, but seen the reverse as well).
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P-Slashes (editing)

One slash, two slash, three slash, more
four slash, five slash, six slash, done

One Slash, Two Slash, Three Slash, More
Marks on, wrists deep and bloody

One, two, three, why can't I die. What
keeps me here, Up down, side to side
razor, knife, can, or other object
sharp will do

I am numb, please make it stop
the pain, what pain? not the slashes
deep or superficial, but the pain
behind that I wish to show to bring
out dig out and let out and set free

2005
(wrote for some people I knew who was into self mutilation/slashing/etc, some say Tattos are a part of this?)
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P-Pull the Trigger

Pull the trigger, pull it now, pull it hard, pull it fast, pull it NOW. I must die, I have to die, the pain, must end it, why do I go on, what
keeps me here, but the pain, the unknown lingering numbness ,the cry for help but have none who cares for my pain

So I sit, here with this gun in my hand, someone pull this damn trigger. pull it fast, pull it hard you piece of **** you worthless pile of crap who looks like you or just me?

Pull the trigger, pull it hard, pull it now, you useless sack of ****, worthless, can't pull the trigger right?

2005
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Above some based on my own life, but also from observing friends lives or self destructions, or just people in general.

Remember to not only counsel people when they mess up, but also when they do good. Help them find avenues to improve.

Long hours of darkness, abuse of alcohol, long seasons of cold and lack of social contact. Contribute to high rates of suicide in Alaska.

Mike
Alaska