RE: http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,144919,00.html

He also get paroled in ten years. Why give him a 110 year sentence when he gets out in ten years?

What a stain these people put on our military. I only wish that someone who was supposed to have been a leader would have stepped up and said No. We need to look seriously at the promotion and morals of todays military. Maybe there is something wrong that I cannot see. I cannot imgagine this happening with people I served with.

This is what bothers me the most about this case:

quote:

FORT CAMPBELL, Ky. - A Soldier convicted for his role in the rape and murder of an Iraqi teenager was sentenced to 110 years in prison, the longest of four Soldiers found guilty in the case.

Why did they let those that actually did the rape and killing, off with lesser sentences? As I stated in the other thread about this, they should all get the firing squad (including Green). It should take place in the center of that town where the crime occurred so the Iraqis can see with their own eyes that we practice what we preach. Also as I pointed out in that thread, it would send a very strong message to any that may attempt to do this in the future.

I got out in 03 but I remember back in 00 there was a big push to send everyone to the promotion board. It didn't matter if direct line supervisors objected or not everyone had to go. By 01 there were so many screwed up E5's running around it made you want to puke. Now these guys are E6 and E7's and leading troops on foreign soil. If you ask me the military caused their own problems by straying away from what is right and works and going to what is easy and makes people feel good.

When the military starts to mirror the actions of the people we are trying to protect then we are all doomed.
LDRSHIP 7 core values

Spielman's sister, Paige Gerlach, screamed: "I hate the government. You people put him (in Iraq) and now, this happened."

Funny so now it is the government's fault your brother was implicated in a rape case. Seems there are 150,000 others there that have managed to do their tour without comitting a crime. Maybe as his sister you out to blame HIS PARENTS in their role in teaching him his rather f'ed up moral code, before you go off and blame the government for his actions.

I certainly don't understand how the one with the least involvement in the crime ended up with the harshest punishment. Even though I understand his guilt, I don't understand the principle of the sentencing.

Jim, that is exactally what my question was on the other thread about this subject.... what would be his punishment be compared to those that did the raping and killing... and now we see... if you 'stand lookout' and help move and burn the bodies you will get worse than those that did rape and kill.

I believe he is as guilty as the others... but he should receive the same punishment... add to that the conflicting statements/testimony to his knowledge and involvement... man.

As one of the others posted... where was the chain of command... you know... accountability? Their squad leader/PSG/PL? Why was a 4 man fireteam sized element allowed to go off and do what they want? We were required to move in at least a squad size or larger... we have seen what happens to a one vehicle position over and over again... 4 guys can get killed and/or captured very easily and quickly.

quote:

Originally posted by Vanir97:
RE: http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,144919,00.html

He also get paroled in ten years. Why give him a 110 year sentence when he gets out in ten years?

Simple ... a sealed pre-trial plea bargain. That was the deal. Duplicate thread by the way. Seem to be a lot of them today.

Jurors on Saturday had sentenced Spielman to a term of life in prison with the possibility of parole and recommended less time than that given to two other soldiers convicted in the crimes -- Spc. James Barker and Sgt. Paul Cortez, Courrege said. Spielman's sentence was changed to 110 years' confinement under a pretrial agreement unsealed at the sentencing, Courrege said.

{here}

This seems within the limits of a just sentence considering the circumstances and failure of leadership.

That these men were in the situation they were in is immoral to start with. Obviously their training was deficient and their unit improperly led.

IT IS TIME TO UNILATERALLY STOP THE WAR IN IRAQ JUST AS WE UNILATERALLY INITIATED IT !

quote:

Originally posted by Woody_in_La:
This is what bothers me the most about this case:

quote:

FORT CAMPBELL, Ky. - A Soldier convicted for his role in the rape and murder of an Iraqi teenager was sentenced to 110 years in prison, the longest of four Soldiers found guilty in the case.

Why did they let those that actually did the rape and killing, off with lesser sentences? As I stated in the other thread about this, they should all get the firing squad (including Green). It should take place in the center of that town where the crime occurred so the Iraqis can see with their own eyes that we practice what we preach. Also as I pointed out in that thread, it would send a very strong message to any that may attempt to do this in the future.

A firing squad in the middle of the site where it happened? why not the way the islamics do. by law the perp in such a crime is stood up in the public square on market day, fridays, and castrated, totally, and left to die. at least thats what happened in Saudia back in the 80's.

It has not been too many years that a rapist in the U.S. Military was hung by the neck until dead, while Treason and desertion were by firing squad.
As to this young soldier's crime, maybe confinement and a dishonorable discharge fits his crime of "guard" and not using the weapon he held as a determent to the crime perpetrated by his comrades. His crime is that of a "good man doing nothing in the face of evil" and not following his orders for protection of innocents in the basic law of Mankind and Humanity. Just a burst of fire over their heads may have stopped the whole thing and given these animals a moment to think as people not the animals they are. At least he would have tried, and not just stood by watching such a heinous crime against humanity.
This young Iraqi woman , had she lived, would have been a zealot for Al Queda after such a crime and I, for one, would not blame her or her family. Had it been his sister, who now avows hatred of the United States, he would have acted a bit differently, I hope. As to her statement of "putting him in Iraq" she seems to forget that he VOLUNTEERED for service and what ever may be required of him by a legal binding contract, and agreed to the payment received for those duties, but not commit rape and/or murder, or allow such in his sight. Maybe this is why the court gave him 110 years with prospect of parole. Wonder if his sister thought of this?

I am reminded, by this situation, of Oliver Stone's "Platoon". Had he really witnessed such a crime and waited for decades to report such or stop it, and then make it a "truth" in his movie, he is also complicite in the crime. I have met numerous members of the 25th, one at the movie when it came out, that avow that they were with Stone in Nam, and he was just another s*#@bird.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: DEANEGILMOUR,

quote:

Originally posted by helez:
This seems within the limits of a just sentence considering the circumstances and failure of leadership.

That these men were in the situation they were in is immoral to start with. Obviously their training was deficient and their unit improperly led.

IT IS TIME TO UNILATERALLY STOP THE WAR IN IRAQ JUST AS WE UNILATERALLY INITIATED IT !

“The truth from an old Army Warrant Officer - that is an oxymoron, right?”

In my 8,265 days of active military service, both air force and army, I’m aware of about a half dozen such incidents including the famed Bamberg Rape Case (the true “A Town Without Pity” story). This time covered seven presidents (four republicans and three democrats) with tours in four countries and 12 states.

However, for the past 9,892 days I have lived in one county at two residents in Florida and I’m aware of about 50 such incidents. Evil deeds of this magnitude has very little to do with military leadership and training – it has a whole lot more to do with moral character instilled during childhood.

Sir, you can’t, as much as you would like to, blame this evil deed on President Bush and our involvement in Iraq anymore than you could blame any one of the many atrocities committed by our troops during WW2 on Presidents Roosevelt or Truman. Sir, your hatred of this administration has blinded you.

The blame for this evil deed belongs to the men who participated in it. And, you are right, the punishments are not equal (I don’t think any of them deserve fairness). But, anything less than castration and death to any/all of the participants is insufficient, in my never to be humble opinion.

At least that’s the way this old soldier sees it.

WOPA! If you have to ask, you wouldn’t understand! And, if I told you … well you know how that goes.

OldArmy, You might as well give up on Helez. He is a lost cause because of his hatred. He and a few others on this site prove they are blinded by the sole objective of blaming everything on our CIC to try to discredit him in any way possible.

Military members who are serving deserve better treatment than is evident here. The pressures of combat warrant consideration and for a young member to be given this sentenance is horrible.I believe anyone on a second tour of duty should have immunity from prosecution. Letting any civilian court try military members for their action is wrong. Some know nothing civilian will never give the consideration to a combat vet or have the ability to understand the mental stres those who fight for this country encounter. Shame on the commanders that permit those who served under them fall under the juristiction of civilians.

quote:

Originally posted by idlemind:
Military members who are serving deserve better treatment than is evident here. The pressures of combat warrant consideration and for a young member to be given this sentenance is horrible.I believe anyone on a second tour of duty should have immunity from prosecution. Letting any civilian court try military members for their action is wrong. Some know nothing civilian will never give the consideration to a combat vet or have the ability to understand the mental stres those who fight for this country encounter. Shame on the commanders that permit those who served under them fall under the juristiction of civilians.

“The truth from an old Army Warrant Officer - that is an oxymoron, right?”

“Immunity from prosecution,” SAY WHAT!! This two tour Vietnam vet (that’s me), thinks you are NUTS. Do you know the old saying “an idle mind is the devil’s playground” – you are living proof.

Throughout all of recorded history soldiers have been held accountable for actions that out of the accepted “rules of war” – yes there have always been such things.

And, there are “Status of Forces Agreements.” These soldiers, IAW the UCMJ and the lack of a SOFA with Iraq, could not have been tried the Iraqi government. But their actions were so contrary to US military and human standards of conduct that the guilty parties should receive the most server punishment allowed.

You have demonstrated a total lack of understanding of military conduct that I sincerely hope you are not now nor ever will be a member of the US military. You public profile says you are an air force vet. If that is correct, please consult the VA for physiological help.

PS: To Woody in La you are right concerning Helez I just had to have my say.

At least that’s the way this old soldier sees it.

WOPA! If you have to ask, you wouldn’t understand! And, if I told you … well you know how that goes.

quote:

Originally posted by idlemind:
Military members who are serving deserve better treatment than is evident here. The pressures of combat warrant consideration and for a young member to be given this sentenance is horrible.I believe anyone on a second tour of duty should have immunity from prosecution. Letting any civilian court try military members for their action is wrong. Some know nothing civilian will never give the consideration to a combat vet or have the ability to understand the mental stres those who fight for this country encounter. Shame on the commanders that permit those who served under them fall under the juristiction of civilians.

Excuse me? He was not tried by civilians. Maybe you need to re-read all the news, he was tried by the Army at Ft.Campbell Ky. I think all of them got off too light, there was a time the firing squad was called for, for things like this. I think it should be called for in this case for all those involved. And further more, it should be done in the center of the town they committed the crime in!

I can not phantom how you think they deserve better treatment when they took part in the rape of a 14 YEAR OLD GIRL, and murdering her and her family, then trying to cover it up by burning them. Could it be that you are just as morbid as they??????

The maxim in law is "Qui tacit consentere" . . . "Silence betokens consent" . . .

Perhaps his possible parole IS the just balance. I wonder what the others' parole options are . . if any.

quote:

Originally posted by Vanir97:
RE: http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,144919,00.html

He also get paroled in ten years. Why give him a 110 year sentence when he gets out in ten years?

There is no excuse for their behavior, when my DS called and said, "Great ma, now the 101st is going to be known for rape and murder." He was there with the 502nd, and didn't know those f'ups.

You are 20,000 strong, and a hand full of deviant Soldiers can't mar the good name of the Screaming Eagles.

At the same time the 82nd Airborne was going through the Internet gay site, Real Military Men scandal.

Please, I love the 82nd and I hated when that went down, and it can't be compared to rape and murder, no comparison. But my DS took these turds of the 101st to heart.

I told him there are f'ups in all walks of life, you have to be accountable for your own actions, have fortitude of honor and stand by your own beliefs.

As far as this soldier getting his sentence, I wonder if I could have watched, but then I wasn't there. Who knows, maybe he was a *****?

I know what they did was wrong, but look at what the other guys are doing and have done. Will they ever pay for what they have done ??? I really don't think so. They do as they wish like chopping off the heads of are people and our allies, on TV noless. I really wish the politics would stand to the side and let the Military do it's job, things would be alot different. We would probably would be done and back home sucking done some suds.
I pray every day for a end to this mess our polititions have gotting us into. So, I say Drive on, Keep your head down, and try not to let the actions of a few bother you just do your job and come home safe. God Bless and Be Strong.

These guys should be castrated and if paroled should be listed as pedophiles. War stress or not this should never happen.

When I read stories like this, it makes me so thankful for the integrity of those I served with. I agree with the post above; I cannot imagine anyone I served with entertaining such a crime. I served during the draft period and I disagree with the premise that an all volunteer military assures us of a higher quality recruit. I don't think I served in a bubble. There were definitely those who did not want to be drafted; however, once their numbers came up, they served with honor and distinction. Any unit today that can amass a group of people like those I served with can be assured that something like this would never happen. There were far too many people with the highest morals and dedication to their nation. My main point is that I truly believe that a group like this was a freak thing! I don't think a single man I served with would have stood by and allowed something like this crime to occur against those we were sent to assist and protect. I will always thank God for the great groups of people that I served with at each of my duty stations; and as a whole, our leaders were leaders in every sense of the word, men who were tough, but tough because they cared about those they led. Two years ago I served as a pall bearer at one of my Flight Sergeant's funeral. I have never felt so honored. As we carried that wonderful guy to his final resting place, my mind was flooded with memories of his leadership and impact upon my life. I hope that every person serving has the opportunity to serve under someone who leads with true love for his/her nation! My thoughts and prayers with every man and woman who currently serves our nation. May those who committed these crimes forever remember the disgrace they brought upon their units and our nation, and their families. As for the woman screaming that she "hated the government," I can only say that your hatred is misplaced. She should hate the evil that her brother participated in!