RE: http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,144520,00.html

Let it go. There have been many servicemen that past because of friendly fire what has been done for them????

Rumsfeld to Testify in Tillman Case

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,144520,00.html

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Among possible evidence of White House knowledge, lawmakers have cited a memo written by a top general seven days after Tillman's death warning it was "highly possible" the Army Ranger was killed by his own comrades and making clear his warning should be conveyed to the president...President Bush made no reference to the way Tillman died in a speech delivered two days after the memo was written...A White House spokesman has said there's no indication Bush received the warning in the memo written April 29, 2004, by then-Maj. Gen. Stanley McChrystal to Abizaid.

That would be Tony Snow of course, who said the exact same thing, yesterday, at a news conference. I want to see Rummy tell the story, and I want to know what Abizaid knew, and when he knew it.

We all might not like it much, but I would rather see an in-depth Congressional investigation by a truly bi-partisan group, to finally get at all the answers and all the truth and either exonerate the top brass, or nail their nutts to a wall.

We have to... if only for Tillman's family.

This is a very good question.

Since this is a high-profile case, it gets a lot of attention. Can you spell p-o-l-i-t-c-s in the air here?

When you have possible punishment of General Officers in the wings, you can bet people are taking it seriously.

Thanks for a good posting.

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Originally posted by turbo240:
RE: http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,144520,00.html

Let it go. There have been many servicemen that past because of friendly fire what has been done for them????

If they were Murdered, their murderer was then maybe sentenced to JAIL, after a Court's Martial.

If this really was a "Fragging", then we should know, and some Justice should be handed down for the Family, and for the sake of the Law.

While my heart goes out to any family who loses a Soldier (which could well someday be mine - my son is a Soldier on active duty), I have to wonder - if Pat Tillman had walked away from a CEO job, or a factory job, would he have received this much notoriety? What about all the Viet Nam vets who died under unclear circumstances? Do we investigate those from the Korean Conflict or Afghanistan? When do we stop witch hunting and start taking care of those who survive. Enough is enough. Let the Democrats and Republicans in office go to the Zone, live the life, fight the fight and see how much virulence they have to conduct high cost investigations then.

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Originally posted by turbo240:

Let it go. There have been many servicemen that past because of friendly fire what has been done for them????

Well, a guy named Hasan Akbar threw grenades into a tent and then shot more with a machine gun. He killed two officers and wounded 14 soldiers. Akbar was sentenced to death.

There are others as well.

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Originally posted by 5122954:
While my heart goes out to any family who loses a Soldier (which could well someday be mine - my son is a Soldier on active duty), I have to wonder - if Pat Tillman had walked away from a CEO job, or a factory job, would he have received this much notoriety? What about all the Viet Nam vets who died under unclear circumstances? Do we investigate those from the Korean Conflict or Afghanistan? When do we stop witch hunting and start taking care of those who survive. Enough is enough. Let the Democrats and Republicans in office go to the Zone, live the life, fight the fight and see how much virulence they have to conduct high cost investigations then.

It is time we stood together as a nation who treasures it's Armed Forces enough to wait till Hell freezes over for the truthful answers to all those questions. We owe it to everyone in uniform. They have to know we will never sit still for murder, that we will ask questions, no matter WHO they are.

If it was you, wouldn't you want your family, your nation in fact, to actually know who you were and how you died... to really know?

Of course you would.

How much attention would a regular Dog Face bring, one who isn't a sports idol? I can tell you the answer would be "ZIP"! This makes one wonder what sort of class system we have in the Military and what sort of person belongs to what class. Once again we will debate the issue of fairness and equity among the military, knowing full well the rest of us really don't matter. I feel awful for the family of Tillman, but no more than all the others who has died in these wars. I agree....let's give it a rest and not use him name to gain political headlines.

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Originally posted by MSGDaleEBuck:
How much attention would a regular Dog Face bring, one who isn't a sports idol? I can tell you the answer would be "ZIP"! This makes one wonder what sort of class system we have in the Military and what sort of person belongs to what class. Once again we will debate the issue of fairness and equity among the military, knowing full well the rest of us really don't matter. I feel awful for the family of Tillman, but no more than all the others who has died in these wars. I agree....let's give it a rest and not use him name to gain political headlines.

But his name has already taken the headlines. We have no choice now BUT to follow this legally, and we have to as a nation.

I don't understand why we wouldn't want to set precedent with this or any high-profile case, and history is repleat with high-profile cases that set legal pecedent.

Of COURSE "politics" is involved, politics of the right, and politics of the left. But if we had all known exactly what happened to Tillman from day one, we would not now be seeking answers that we should have had - and laid to rest, YEARS ago. Anything that happens in Washington, by definition means politics are involved. That is what politics are.

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But if we had all known exactly what happened to Tillman from day one, we would not now be seeking answers that we should have had - and laid to rest, YEARS ago. Anything that happens in Washington, by definition means politics are involved.

Yup.

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Originally posted by Weatherguesser:

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Originally posted by turbo240:

Let it go. There have been many servicemen that past because of friendly fire what has been done for them????

Well, a guy named Hasan Akbar threw grenades into a tent and then shot more with a machine gun. He killed two officers and wounded 14 soldiers. Akbar was sentenced to death.

There are others as well.

I was there, and was shot at by him as well. Capt. Jason Siefert and Major Michael Stone were great guys, but not sports idols, or Television Stars, just a couple of family men who wanted to live. Most people don't even remember that incident that occured on a warm night on 22 March 2003 at Camp Pennsylvania where I was the Camp First Sergeant....thanks for remembering those men!

quote:

Originally posted by Weatherguesser:
I don't understand why we wouldn't want to set precedent with this or any high-profile case, and history is repleat with high-profile cases that set legal pecedent.

Of COURSE "politics" is involved, politics of the right, and politics of the left. But if we had all known exactly what happened to Tillman from day one, we would not now be seeking answers that we should have had - and laid to rest, YEARS ago. Anything that happens in Washington, by definition means politics are involved. That is what politics are.

I agree whole heartedly with your statements and feel that we should have just told the world what happened and this would have went away then. Our leaders have been less than steller in this conflict.

Wow... glad you made it. ( I am glad that he may likely hang for it too.)

The poster had it right to a point too... someone like Tillman could not help but be a "high-profile" grunt. That isn't his fault, he was born to be a good athlete.

Joe Schmoe from Kokomo would likely never get this level of scrutiny. But that doesn't mean we should give a pass to someone who may have known a different "truth" than the one we have been spoon fed, a (possible) lie, or lies, in other words.

That's all I am saying.

quote:

Of COURSE "politics" is involved, politics of the right, and politics of the left. But if we had all known exactly what happened to Tillman from day one, we would not now be seeking answers that we should have had - and laid to rest, YEARS ago. Anything that happens in Washington, by definition means politics are involved. That is what politics are.

Watergate all over again . . . But like Dale says, stuff happens. You live with it and move on . . . However, if there was a cover up of the facts, well, that puts a slightly different light on it. No doubt, in time, the truth will come out as President Nixon found. You can only cover up so much before folks start asking questions.

Wouldn't it be nifty if people would tell the truth, admit their errors and take responsibility if they screwed something up?

Huh.

Nah.

You know, the "Malmedy Massacre" during WWII was also a classic case of a true-crime that was covered-up, hushed-up, call it whatever... but the bodies of those 80 odd servicemen the German's murdered laid in the snow for 4 weeks before they were finally picked up, "because there was still heavy fighting in the area", as claimed by one U.S. commander.

Check this out:

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/dachauscrapbook/DachauTri...lmedyMassacre02.html

I think that the way that it sounds is there is some type of coverup or manipulation being done to confound the Tillman family and the Government doesen't want to be embarrassed by it so they are trying to snowball everyone with smoke and mirror's.

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Wouldn't it be nifty if people would tell the truth, admit their errors and take responsibility if they screwed something up?

Yep Ford it sure would. It would save so much trouble . . . If Nixon hadn't tried to cover up Watergate, he probably would have survived, and the same goes for alot of other scandals. It's the lying and the attempts to shift blame and all the rest of it that causes the trouble.

I am now going to go cut the grass while the sun's shining . ..did anybody but me hear a news report that 19.2 billion dollars in equipment handed over to the Iraqi security forces has gone "missing" in the sense the guys in the Pentagon don't know where it is. Any bets it's been "sold on"?

War is not a pleasant thing. But it is a fact of life. Whether we like it or not. And part of the "fog of war", is friendly fire. No ifs, ands, or buts. Each incident should be investigated. Some will become blatant (Hasan Akbar, who was rightly executed.) and those cases come to light and the participants suffer the consequences. In the case of Tillman, it was clearly unintentional. Should the General have covered this up. No! Pat Tillman was a hero. As any other fallen soldier is a hero. The media has once again risen to the occasion. Someone who could have become a real role model for our youth, by showing that some things (Duty, Honor, Country) are more important than material things (A high paying football career), has now become a media play that makes him seem not as worthy of the honor. To most of us who read this page and keep up with what is going on, he remains that hero. For those who only see the media blitz, he is now tarnished in their eyes. And that, is teh shame of this whole debaucle. His family should have been informed in private and the rest of us, should have only been told he was a hero who went back into harms way to save his fellow soldiers. Let it rest from here and let him have the peace he deserves.