RE: http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,144265,00.html


I don't understand what has happened to some of our military. Having been in combat I can understand when you don't know who the hell the enemy is.... but this is going off the deep end!
Murder and rape of a 14 yo girl?

I just don't understand.
Z

I agree.

Unfortunately it raises the question of what has happened to the core values that all military branches teach... as well as the values that society itself has placed in this generation of young men and women.

This is not about the military, this is about evil human beings, who get into the military.

No amount of "teaching" can keep a truly black-hearted person from committing evil acts.

That is true.

quote:

Originally posted by SgtSchaeffersMom:
This is not about the military, this is about evil human beings, who get into the military.

No amount of "teaching" can keep a truly black-hearted person from committing evil acts.

SSM...I agree with you but how do you keep 'evil human beings' out of the military? Perhaps we should do the psychological testing some police forces use.
Whatever should be done...needs to be done. This reflect badly on all our forces... no matter how good they are...because of a few arses!

Semper Fi,
Z

He was probably some POS gang banger that entered the military for the sole purpose of learning combat tactics. I seem to recall a story in the new that mentioned the military was having problems with POS Street gangs doing that. I say when we find them we hang them.

quote:

Originally posted by DocZac:

quote:

Originally posted by SgtSchaeffersMom:
This is not about the military, this is about evil human beings, who get into the military.

No amount of "teaching" can keep a truly black-hearted person from committing evil acts.

SSM...I agree with you but how do you keep 'evil human beings' out of the military? Perhaps we should do the psychological testing some police forces use.
Whatever should be done...needs to be done. This reflect badly on all our forces... no matter how good they are...because of a few arses!

Semper Fi,
Z

This is a matter of statistics. If this soldier had no criminal history, there is nothing the military can do.

Its like trying to screen out child molesters from the teaching profession. If there is no history, there is nothing you can do.

Unfortunately, the only cure for that is time, eventually the bad person will do something. Thee is always a "first" offense. Since this soldier was young, as are most soldiers, not enough time has gone by for the necessary opportunities for wrong doing to take place -- hence, no red flags.

Sad, but I really don't think there is much you can do. My daughter works for a police department, as a non-commissioned enforcement officer. It took four months for her security clearance to be done. It included psychological testing and even a polygraph, after a lengthy personal history investigation.

It would definitely weed bad guys out. But how in the world can you do that for the entire armed forces? The cost/benefit ratio of this would be completely prohibitive, not only in terms of money, but in terms of the time necessary to do it.

quote:

Originally posted by armywifefigueroa:
I agree.

Unfortunately it raises the question of what has happened to the core values that all military branches teach... as well as the values that society itself has placed in this generation of young men and women.

...............................................
As a combat veteran I am both saddened and outraged. What these men (and using the term men is not correct, because they are not real men) did is vile and evil.

As for todays youth. One should look no farther than the music they are listening to, the video games they play and the role models they have. I remember the early sixties when the " Temptation" sang "My Girl". Now the rappers talk of "My Ho or " My *****". Many of the professional athletes are either thugs, and if even they aren't, they like to have the image. I'm old enough to remember when a man never waved at another mans wife and you surely never visited his home when he was out. I was probably a junior in high school before I ever heared the F word spoken by a female . A few years back 20/20 did a segment on Army recruit training. One of the DI's was a female and I sit in disbelief as it showed her entering a barracks squad bay at revillie and rousting the recruits from their bunks. These were all young male teenage recruits. I became furious at this and I remember telling my wife, that if I had a son in that recruit platoon, I would have driven to the base and brought him home. We now have female guards in all male prisons. Neither one of these examples makes us a better society in my humble opinion. I remember the then Senator Howard Baker telling about his grandfather who was a rural Sheriff here in Tennessee. He died while in office and Senator Bakers Grandmother was appointed to serve out his term. She was the first female Sheriff in Tennessee. It was said that when there was a big brawl going on at one of the local knife and gun club (Bar) she accompanyed her deputies to the location. She would enter the bar at which time the brawlers would stop fighting and she would shame them for fighting, They would respond with " yes mams" and promise to not do it again. Of course she wore no uniform, just her dress, pocket book and I'm sure was wearing her white gloves, as was the custom in tht time. Now days if a female Sheriff or deputy was to enter a bar and try to break up a fight, she would probably be punched out or shot. I guess for some, that might be a sign of maturity for us as a society. I think not.

HANG THE MOTHERFU@KER...why do these people have to make the rest of us law abiding folks look bad.

These "soldiers" should all be executed. They've dishonored us. But unfortunately I bet he'll get a pretty lenient sentance.

As previous posters have stated this is not a reflection of the military but of the human race and American society in particular. No matter what safeguards you have in place there will always be individuals who slip through the cracks. 18 and 19 year old service members are given the awesome responsibility of carrying a loaded firearm and charged with making life and death decisions every day when their peers biggest dilemma is whether to use plastic or paper. Most handle their duties with great honor and maturity. A few such as these sorry punks don’t.

There is no easy answer as it is a combination of many factors. In today’s society where the heroes are the Lindsay Lohans, Paris Hiltons and Michael Vicks, and there is no sense of personal responsibility or parental control kids are allowed to do as they please. If they get in trouble in school their parents want to know why the teacher is picking on them…unlike past generations when the punishment from school was nothing compared to what your parents would do. I’m sure some of these soldiers will bring up the fact that they were abused or neglected as children to explain why they are not really at fault for their actions. It is not just soldiers but cops, teachers, priests and members of all occupations who are flawed humans. Every group has its black sheep and we have to recognize that and not paint all members of the group with the brush a very few have chosen.

99% of the time I back our troops even when they are accused of some bogus murder charge... however this story doesn't look so good on the surface. What made them do it is what I ask.

quote:

Originally posted by M123Driver:
As previous posters have stated this is not a reflection of the military but of the human race and American society in particular.

There is no easy answer as it is a combination of many factors. In today’s society where the heroes are the Lindsay Lohans, Paris Hiltons and Michael Vicks, and there is no sense of personal responsibility or parental control kids are allowed to do as they please. If they get in trouble in school their parents want to know why the teacher is picking on them…unlike past generations when the punishment from school was nothing compared to what your parents would do. I’m sure some of these soldiers will bring up the fact that they were abused or neglected as children to explain why they are not really at fault for their actions. It is not just soldiers but cops, teachers, priests and members of all occupations who are flawed humans. Every group has its black sheep and we have to recognize that and not paint all members of the group with the brush a very few have chosen.

When a young man or woman decides to enter the military, they are given various forms to fill out.... and often a group of tests to take. It would not be out of the question to include a test that could be used for psychological profiling. Saying that, I must state that I hate governmental intervention in my life.... but there must be some way to cull out these people from the world's greatest fighting force. Will we lose some potential people who would have served with out any issues...sadly, yes we will. Will some slip through the crack and we will see headlines like this one again....yes it will happen. But if 10% are caught... that is better than doing nothing and hoping for the best.
We don't need our finest smeared by a few!
Semper Fi,
Z

This message has been edited. Last edited by: DocZac,

Why is today's youth being discussed here? It is not like murders and rapes didn't take place in all times, especially during wars. This has nothing to do with how children are brought up today! Just like one can't claim that all servicemen are rapists and murderers, one shouldn't claim that all youngsters are rotten and evil.

I do wonder what went on in those soldiers' minds when they commited this horrible crime, my guess is that somehow they convinced themselves that it's ok as long as it's an Iraqi (ie enemy) they rape and murder.

The whole thing reflects badly on the military and on Americans and those soldiers should be severly punished for two reasons: to pay for their crime and to set an example.

My husband was in the military in the late 60s to early 80s and to me it seems as though the ppl now serving are so different, I know that times have changed, but look how our kids all play those video games and the music they listen to. Seems to me there is no morals left. I know durning the nam era there was alot going on over in Viet Nam that we didnt know about. I have even heard stories from my mom while in Italy durning world war II so I wonder really just how much different our soldiers are. No matter what happens to these guys, this is something they will have to carry with them for the rest of their lives. To me that is a life sentence.

quote:

Originally posted by 13765632:
My husband was in the military in the late 60s to early 80s and to me it seems as though the ppl now serving are so different, I know that times have changed, but look how our kids all play those video games and the music they listen to. Seems to me there is no morals left. I know durning the nam era there was alot going on over in Viet Nam that we didnt know about. I have even heard stories from my mom while in Italy durning world war II so I wonder really just how much different our soldiers are. No matter what happens to these guys, this is something they will have to carry with them for the rest of their lives. To me that is a life sentence.

Jeannie,
I hear what you are saying...but having kids who play video games...and some of the music they listen to...geeze.... I find it frustrating and often irritating. Thing is... I don't believe that has much to do with who children become. I tend to place the blame on parents who ignore all the warning signs. Parents who are so self involved...they have no time for their children. Are there natural sociopaths? Of course there are. But on the most part...they are few and far inbetween.

Like I said when I opened this thread.... I just don't understand.

Semper Fi,
Z

quote:

Originally posted by 13765632:
My husband was in the military in the late 60s to early 80s and to me it seems as though the ppl now serving are so different, I know that times have changed, but look how our kids all play those video games and the music they listen to. Seems to me there is no morals left. I know durning the nam era there was alot going on over in Viet Nam that we didnt know about. I have even heard stories from my mom while in Italy durning world war II so I wonder really just how much different our soldiers are. No matter what happens to these guys, this is something they will have to carry with them for the rest of their lives. To me that is a life sentence.

I served from 1966 to 1987, while stationed in Germany I sat on several Genral Courts-Martial.
The charges ranged from murder to drug dealing.
Also while I was in Germany a soldier was tried and convicted for the murder and rape of a Warrant Officer's wife.
As far as not hearing of crimes committed by our servicemen in WWII, they did. One example is in the book "Band of Brothers", where an American soldier killed a British Officer and shot another American in the head. During my career I knew of or heard of a number of crimes committed by both officers and enlisted ranging from fraud to murder.
I do not believe that those serving today are any more immoral than those who have served in the past and the vast majority are decent honorable people. No matter what the military does to try and screen applicants for military service there will be those who slip through the cracks.

Another posting concerning the same story.

Army Opens Rape-Slaying Court-Martial
Associated Press | August 01, 2007

FORT CAMPBELL, Ky. - A Soldier testified Tuesday that another in his unit bragged to him about an attack in which a 14-year-old girl was raped and killed and her family slain.

Sgt. Anthony Yribe, 23, testified during the second day of the court-martial of Pfc. Jesse Spielman, who is accused of being a lookout while other Soldiers assaulted the girl and her family in March 2006.

But prosecutors focused most of their questions Tuesday on former Pfc. Steven D. Green, who is accused of leading the Soldiers in the attack.

Yribe responded with Spielman, 22, of Chambersburg, Pa., and two others after Iraqi soldiers reported the slayings in Mahmoudiya.

He testified that Green and Sgt. Paul E. Cortez were waiting for him at a checkpoint after Yribe went to the scene, and that Green immediately told him he had attacked the family.

"I didn't believe him at all," Yribe said. He said he thought such an attack was improbable in broad daylight in a particularly violent region.

Prosecutors displayed grisly photographs of 14-year-old Abeer Qassim al-Janabi, her parents and younger sister as Yribe described the scene. The photo of Abeer showed a charred outline of the girl's upper body. Her legs and the remnants of a blue and purple dress were all that weren't burned.

Spielman faces rape and murder charges, and he pleaded guilty to lesser charges on Monday. Prosecutors do not say he took part in the rape or murders, but he can be charged under military law if they can prove he went to the house knowing what the others intended to do.

Other Soldiers charged in the attack have told investigators that Spielman knew of the plan to rape the girl, and that he was present when they hammered out details over swigs on a bottle of Iraqi whiskey.

During their courts-martial, Spc. James P. Barker and Cortez testified they took turns raping the girl while Green shot and killed her mother, father and younger sister. Green shot Abeer in the head after raping her, they said. The girl's body was then set on fire with kerosene to destroy the evidence, according to previous testimony.

Barker, Cortez and Pfc. Bryan L. Howard are expected to be called to testify against Spielman.

The three Soldiers have pleaded guilty for their roles in the slayings and received sentences of five to 100 years. Green, who was discharged from the Army before being charged, faces the possibility of the death penalty when he is tried in federal court.

Green has pleaded not guilty to charges that include murder and sexual assault. No trial date has been set, and his attorney Patrick Bouldin declined to comment Tuesday.

Maj. Alex Pickands, an Army prosecutor, said in his opening statement that the unit's discipline had begun to unravel in the violent rural area south of Baghdad.

Defense lawyer Dan Christensen said the unit was filled with Soldiers who struggled with mental disorders and took drugs and alochol to cope with a battlefield that had killed dozens of their friends.

"Every person involved in these allegations had been diagnosed with a mental disorder by March 12," he said.

Spielman pleaded guilty Monday to conspiracy to obstructing justice, arson, wrongfully touching a corpse and drinking.

Christensen told jurors Spielman "made some really bad judgment calls, and you're going to see that he's admitted to them."

When I first read the article, I had concluded it was a spur of the moment thing. After reading this part... it was all premeditated.

Green needs to be strapped to a gurney and released from this world.

Semper Fi,
Z

How very sad that this young girl was raped and killed by one of our very own soldiers. Also very sad is the fact that he knew what was going on inside of that house and did nothing but be the lookout (so he claims). Would he have done this sort of thing at home? Has he done this sort of thing at home?

The others who have been convicted, did they do this sort of violence at home prior to joining the military?

Being a prior serviceperson, I do not believ that the military makes a person behave like this. I remember how strict the rules and regulations are. Yes, they are broken at times, but not like that.

How devistating for the little 14 year old girl to be raped repeatedly and then shot in the head. How disgusting that they burned her body to get rid of the evidence of what they did to her. These are very sick young men. I pray that their souls rot in hell for what they have done. It is not forgivable. They will get their "justice" in jail. Many of the men incarcerated will see to it.