RE: http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,143182,00.html

quote:

BAGHDAD - Iraq's national security adviser expressed doubt Friday that Iraqi forces will be able to assume security control of the whole country by the end of the year, a goal of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's government.

Only 6 battalions ready to fight, after $3 Billion invested over 3 years in their training, and that number is down from what "they" claimed, which was 10 battalions ready - by the end of 2005.

How many actual combat-ready troops does that equal? About 3,000 - or $10 Million invested, per man.

I have my doubts, too.

More of the same old "we know better than you do" attitude.

Training Iraqi forces to 'stand up', what does that mean? There were Iraqi forces standing up before there was an America.

Remember how somebody taught the SVNA to 'stand up' American-style before the Vietnam peace with honor thing? They couldn't repair all the materiel left behind to fight a modern war and they were incapable of fighting even their own kind of war.

Now the same thing's happening again. A US style hi-tech army is being 'stood up'. Problem is the hi-tech part. Iraqis have been looking after Iraq since Noah was an egg. They've faced the best the world had to offer and they're still above grade. Organize them - their way. Give em back Saddam's weapons and they'll look after Iraq.

PS Brace yourself to accept Iraqi democracy not turning out to be what you want.

quote:

U.S. military officials have been signaling for weeks that improvements in Iraqi security forces had not lived up to expectations - especially in the national police, which is widely believed to be infiltrated by Shiite militiamen.

This is probably the biggest obstacle that the US and Iraq has faced in meeting the arbitrary "benchmarks". However, I do believe that the Iraqi's will fight for survival without the shackles of the political correct ROE's imposed on them.

I have not heard or seen any speculation as to how the ROE's for the Iraqi Army or National Police Police will be or, are different from ours.

quote:

Originally posted by gmost:

quote:

U.S. military officials have been signaling for weeks that improvements in Iraqi security forces had not lived up to expectations - especially in the national police, which is widely believed to be infiltrated by Shiite militiamen.

This is probably the biggest obstacle that the US and Iraq has faced in meeting the arbitrary "benchmarks". However, I do believe that the Iraqi's will fight for survival without the shackles of the political correct ROE's imposed on them.

I have not heard or seen any speculation as to how the ROE's for the Iraqi Army or National Police Police will be or, are different from ours.

Does anybody even know if Iraqi forces are subject to ROE?

Under, the Congressional Agreed upon framework -- General Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker agreed to provide Congress a "Progress Report" on the Iraq "Security Stabilization Plan" (AKA - The "Surge") in September 2007.

Of course, the Congressional Democratic Leadership tried to advance the "Progress Report" date until July 2007 (obviously, to increase their political advantages.)

General Petraeus and Ambassador will give the progress report; then policy deciders will listen to their recommendations and decide the future U.S. forces action in Iraq! What is so difficult about understanding this concept?

Vietnam ain't Iraq!

Here's another example of the truth of that claim!


"U.N. chief warns abrupt withdrawal could deepen Iraq crisis

UNITED NATIONS (AP) — U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon warned Monday that an abrupt U.S. troop pullout could deepen the crisis in Iraq, and he urged the United States to keep the Iraqi people in mind when making decisions on the increasingly unpopular war.

Ban said both the United States and the international community have a responsibility not to abandon the Iraqi


See:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2007-07-16-un-iraq_N.htm

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If my memory serves me; we had numerous requests from the UN to LEAVE Vietnam. We pulled our Combat Troops in 1973. Our Congress cut off funding and any aid to the South Vietnamese Government in 1973/74; which led to the "Loss" of the War!

We're winning this War;

- our Commanders are asking for more time;

- most experts say it would be FRIGGIN WRONG to PRECIPITOUSLY withdraw from Iraq;

- MOST Americans Want to WIN IN IRAQ (More than those that advocate Precipitously Withdrawal);

- President Bush "Listens to the Military Commanders;"

- And, President Bush's term ends in 18 months.

God Bless him, if he takes our Generals Recommendations and does the best he can -- Against a group of Congress members; who believe they are better military experts than those Commanding Generals on the Field of Battle.

Moreover; those advocating withdrawal, have clearly stated their reasons for that position:

Example A: "We're going to pick up Senate seats as a result of this war. Senator Schumer has shown me the mumbers that are compelling and astounding. Then Senator Reid stated: "The war is Lost!"

Example B: "This debate will go on," vowed House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (05/25/07)

Example C: House Foreign Affairs Chairman Tom Lantos declared that: "We have an alternative Democratic foreign policy. I view my job as beginning with restoring overseas credibility and respect for the United States."

I suspect "al-Qaeda" will be PREVENTED from achieving VICTORY IN IRAQ for some time.

And, I'm a full supporter of that happening and our TROOPS Coming home, in time, with Smiles on their Faces. Something that Vietnam Veterans didn't have reasons to do!

From A Proud Vietnam Veteran

quote:

Under, the Congressional Agreed upon framework -- General Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker agreed to provide Congress a "Progress Report" on the Iraq "Security Stabilization Plan" (AKA - The "Surge") in September 2007... Of course, the Congressional Democratic Leadership tried to advance

That, is an absolutely False accusation.

The "Interim Report" was also a part of the "Surge" authorization, a report that was not written by Congressional Democrats... and yet it is not very kind to the progress of the Surge, to this date.

You can of course blame the Democrats, but that does not make it so.

(Notice that once again, I did not say I hate Bush)

quote:

Originally posted by Weatherguesser:

quote:

Under, the Congressional Agreed upon framework -- General Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker agreed to provide Congress a "Progress Report" on the Iraq "Security Stabilization Plan" (AKA - The "Surge") in September 2007... Of course, the Congressional Democratic Leadership tried to advance

That, is an absolutely False accusation.

The "Interim Report" was also a part of the "Surge" authorization, a report that was not written by Congressional Democrats... and yet it is not very kind to the progress of the Surge, to this date.

You can of course blame the Democrats, but that does not make it so.

(Notice that once again, I did not say I hate Bush)

What the Supplemental Appropriations Bill required was an "interim" report in July with a full report in person from Petraeus and Crocker in September. Them's the facts.

What is there about the phase "Protect your own country", that these people don't understand? We have poured billions of dollars and thousands of American lives into Iraq and have been training their military for four years and yet they still cannot defend their country. How many years do they want us to train them? If we stay there and train their troops for the next twenty years would they be able to take over security then? What if we give them another 10 billion dollars and another four thousand american lives? When does this end? When is enough enough? I do not advocate pulling American troops out and allowing the country to be taken over by the insurgents, however we must have an obtainable goal that we can aim for and achieve within a reasonable amount of time.

The best way to learn to swim is to jump right into the deep end of the pool and begin treading water.

Likewise, perhaps if American troops are removed frm the combat missions, then Iraqi troops and security forces will, by necessity to stay alive, begin to "tread water" and take over the combat operations. Granted, it WILL get rather bloody but the United States cannot do the dirty work in Iraq forever. We do not have the financial resources.

There comes a time in everything when the training wheels must be removed.

Bring the troops home!!

THIS IRAQI GOVERNMENT IS NOT WORTH THE LOSS OF ANOTHER AMERICAN !

It is all political and military withdrawal should have been accomplished long before this.

BRING TROOPS HOME NOW !

quote:

Originally posted by helez:
THIS IRAQI GOVERNMENT IS NOT WORTH THE LOSS OF ANOTHER AMERICAN !

Yeah, they kinda remind me of our "government", not worth a diddly.

quote:

Originally posted by SgtSchaeffersMom:

quote:

Originally posted by helez:
THIS IRAQI GOVERNMENT IS NOT WORTH THE LOSS OF ANOTHER AMERICAN !

Yeah, they kinda remind me of our "government", not worth a diddly.

Believe it or not, they make our government seem "divine"...

Of Course; Weatherguesser, you would have me CONCLUDE that you know more about the September Report than General Petraeus.

And, General Petreaus explains it here (FNS, June 17, 2007):
--------------------------

WALLACE: Well, let's start talking about the Washington clock. Less than a month ago, President Bush was talking up the importance of this progress report that you're going to be delivering to him and to Congress in September.

Let's put it up on the screen. Mr. Bush said, "I see it as an important moment because David Petraeus says that's when he'll have a pretty good assessment as to what the effects of the surge has been."

But now, sir, a number of top administration officials are downplaying the September report. Are you backing away from how much you're going to be able to say in September?

PETRAEUS: I am not. In fact, Ambassador Ryan Crocker, my diplomatic wing man here, and I will go back in September and we'll provide a snapshot of where we are at that time, and it will be a forthright assessment of what we've achieved and what we haven't achieved.

I'll talk, obviously, about the security aspects of the situation and he will address the political and economic ones.

We also owe it, we think, to the decision-makers at one end of Pennsylvania Avenue and those who provide advice and consent and resources for the policies at the other end some sense of the implications of the various courses of action that might be under discussion at that point in time.

There are some very serious centrifugal forces here in Iraq, and I think we all need to have very clear eyes about what can happen, what the implications of various options are and, again, just to assess those correctly.


Now Weatherguesser; how much "emphasis" was on the July "Interim" report?

And, Weatherguesser, cite me where I IMPLIED or wrote something that is FALSE?

And NOTICE I haven't attacked anyone. I've given you my Opinion --

"Of course, the Congressional Democratic Leadership tried to advance the "Progress Report" date until July 2007 (obviously, to increase their political advantages.)" (Precisely Quoted as written in my previous post!

Again, where am I wrong?

From A Proud Vietnam Veteran

quote:

Originally posted by Weatherguesser:

quote:

Under, the Congressional Agreed upon framework -- General Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker agreed to provide Congress a "Progress Report" on the Iraq "Security Stabilization Plan" (AKA - The "Surge") in September 2007... Of course, the Congressional Democratic Leadership tried to advance

That, is an absolutely False accusation.

The "Interim Report" was also a part of the "Surge" authorization, a report that was not written by Congressional Democrats... and yet it is not very kind to the progress of the Surge, to this date.

You can of course blame the Democrats, but that does not make it so.

(Notice that once again, I did not say I hate Bush)

quote:

Originally posted by corporalJT:
"we have complete FAILURE of the enemy to cooperate"

Dang, guess "war IS hell".

This whole thing is a cluster fu*k. Its time to fold up the tents and bring them home.

they might not have a choice. This war is politcal suicide, so come 2009 the phrase the best way to learn how to swim is jump in the water will apply to the Iraqi military

After all this time even the most ardent supporter of our mission in Iraq has got to be disappointed in this. Since we are now working with the Sunnis, perhaps it is time to let some of those trained soldiers and police officers who we canned after liberating the country go back to work after a short class in democratic principles and civil rights. After all, we did employ a whole bunch of ex-nazis after the conclusion of WWII.