RE: http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,132397,00.html

This is sure to make enlistments jump!

Enlistments and reenlistments aren't such priorities today when the air force is down-sizing.

Join the Air Force to work on aircraft, man a convoy under fire in a hostile town, yeah, makes a h3ll of a lot sense to me. What's next, join the Navy to sail ships and drive a tank for the Army in a hostile town...
Something, the enlistees aren't being told at the recruiter, I guess...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

Someone at the Pentagon has their head screwed on straight. Good thing for them to do. I totally agree with this concept. The Air Force should always have been part of the Army anyway, and never a separate service.

quote:

Originally posted by SUNLINER81:
Join the Air Force to work on aircraft, man a convoy under fire in a hostile town, yeah, makes a h3ll of a lot sense to me. What's next, join the Navy to sail ships and drive a tank for the Army in a hostile town...
Something, the enlistees aren't being told at the recruiter, I guess...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

have you heard the word Total ForceThe Air Force has always stepped up and volunteered to help its fellow service on numerous occasions. We have been deployed to the mid east right along with all other services and augment those as well.


Since its adoption in 1973, the Total Force Policy has guided decisions about how people available to the Department of Defense—active, Reserve component (RC), retired military, federal civilian, Service auxiliaries, and contractors—are structured to protect the nation’s interests. The integrated capabilities of the Total Force are essential to successfully implementing U.S. defense strategy and, indeed, are a prerequisite to a cost-effective force structure.

Total Force

quote:

Originally posted by ss_287:

quote:

Originally posted by SUNLINER81:
Join the Air Force to work on aircraft, man a convoy under fire in a hostile town, yeah, makes a h3ll of a lot sense to me. What's next, join the Navy to sail ships and drive a tank for the Army in a hostile town...
Something, the enlistees aren't being told at the recruiter, I guess...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

have you heard the word Total ForceThe Air Force has always stepped up and volunteered to help its fellow service on numerous occasions. We have been deployed to the mid east right along with all other services and augment those as well.

How much does it take, say to train an egress technician, any idea, I mean I don't know or say a jet engine mechanic? So you take say a hydraulics technician and send him or her out on a convoy, after more training and then you take that investment of time, training and money and use them to not maintain an aircraft, it's just a stupid waste of time, training and money!
If you want an infantry soldier, then take them out of the U.S.A.F. and send them to Army recruit training and train them for that job to begin with...
The Air Force is complaining of not having enough money, then why spend it on training an Airman, when what you need is an infantryman?
If the Air Force doesn't need any more personnel, then close the freaking doors on their recruiting stations, you'll save even more cash...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

Sunliner is a squid who has been out of touch with the military for quite some time and does not understand Total Force. That also includes me, having been retired 7 years and haveing spent my entire career in intel. But I understand the need to be self sufficient and cross trained in protection. The old days of the SPs patrolling inside the wire while the Army patrolled outside is long gone.

I understand mission requirement for all services today cross a lot of lines and the mission requirements may mean cross training into unfamiliar fields. But, as it has been obviously proven, the old ways are gone. Used to be the AF bases were fairly safe from attacks, except FACs and some quick reaction bases. With the nebulous and amorphous lines of communications, resupply, and forward bases being interchangeable, sounds good to me. Have a good evening!~!

quote:

Originally posted by SLDO:
Sunliner is a squid who has been out of touch with the military for quite some time and does not understand Total Force. That also includes me, having been retired 7 years and haveing spent my entire career in intel. But I understand the need to be self sufficient and cross trained in protection. The old days of the SPs patrolling inside the wire while the Army patrolled outside is long gone.

I understand mission requirement for all services today cross a lot of lines and the mission requirements may mean cross training into unfamiliar fields. But, as it has been obviously proven, the old ways are gone. Used to be the AF bases were fairly safe from attacks, except FACs and some quick reaction bases. With the nebulous and amorphous lines of communications, resupply, and forward bases being interchangeable, sounds good to me. Have a good evening!~!

Squid is a derogatory term, especially, coming from someone who didn't wear the Navy uniform and if you read my profile, the Navy is not my only service...
There is such a thing as being penny wise and pound foolish! That is exactly what's being done here. Either build an infantry soldier or build an Airman, anything else is just stupid!
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

It would be great if the army could handle all the army tasks, and the air force could just handle air forces tasks, but that just isn't the case today. There are many reasons for this including defense cuts which have been discussed many times. Another contributing factor is how the army approached the "total force" or reliance upon the guard and reserves to round out the active force in any operation. The army transferred a lot of the support functions into the guard and reserve so they could keep more shooters in the active force. Those guard and reserve support forces have already been deployed multiple times, and the army has been running into regulatory and political roadblocks in trying to reuse them for quite a while now. That means that the army simply doesn't have those forces available to deploy anymore, but the missions/tasks still need to be accomplished. That's why the army has to borrow air force personnel. Not a good situation, but that's where we are today.

quote:

Originally posted by TaxmanJim:
It would be great if the army could handle all the army tasks, and the air force could just handle air forces tasks, but that just isn't the case today. There are many reasons for this including defense cuts which have been discussed many times. Another contributing factor is how the army approached the "total force" or reliance upon the guard and reserves to round out the active force in any operation. The army transferred a lot of the support functions into the guard and reserve so they could keep more shooters in the active force. Those guard and reserve support forces have already been deployed multiple times, and the army has been running into regulatory and political roadblocks in trying to reuse them for quite a while now. That means that the army simply doesn't have those forces available to deploy anymore, but the missions/tasks still need to be accomplished. That's why the army has to borrow air force personnel. Not a good situation, but that's where we are today.

Shouldn't be in that situation, that in and of itself, should be a crime. The military needs to be rebuilt, restructured and increased in size, anything else is criminal stupidity!!!
Let's hear it for the peace dividend!
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

quote:

Originally posted by SUNLINER81:

quote:

Originally posted by ss_287:

quote:

Originally posted by SUNLINER81:
Join the Air Force to work on aircraft, man a convoy under fire in a hostile town, yeah, makes a h3ll of a lot sense to me. What's next, join the Navy to sail ships and drive a tank for the Army in a hostile town...
Something, the enlistees aren't being told at the recruiter, I guess...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

have you heard the word Total ForceThe Air Force has always stepped up and volunteered to help its fellow service on numerous occasions. We have been deployed to the mid east right along with all other services and augment those as well.

How much does it take, say to train an egress technician, any idea, I mean I don't know or say a jet engine mechanic? So you take say a hydraulics technician and send him or her out on a convoy, after more training and then you take that investment of time, training and money and use them to not maintain an aircraft, it's just a stupid waste of time, training and money!
If you want an infantry soldier, then take them out of the U.S.A.F. and send them to Army recruit training and train them for that job to begin with...
The Air Force is complaining of not having enough money, then why spend it on training an Airman, when what you need is an infantryman?
If the Air Force doesn't need any more personnel, then close the freaking doors on their recruiting stations, you'll save even more cash...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

Well, the solution is cut back on wings of high dollar, maintenance intensive airframes, since it's obvious that the AF won't have the force cap to support them. Then, the USAF won't need so much money anymore, either, and we can use the extra funds to reset the billions worth of Army equipment that it Tango Uniform.

It's not they're being involuntarily transferred to the Army or anything. They have a choice: the Army, or the civilian world...they chose the Army.

To me, here's an example of the wisdom of our young military leaders being much better THAN we old "monday morning 'quarterback' retirees and veterans of the past."

"We want to be one team, one fight. It doesn't matter which service tape you have on your uniform," said 1st Lt. Matt Addington, the course commander.

This is an example of SERVICE BEFORE SELF; which is the Air Force Motto and the THINKING of Great Air Force members -- of which, I'm very proud to be associated with!

From A Proud Vietnam Veteran

quote:

Originally posted by SUNLINER81:

quote:

Originally posted by SLDO:
Sunliner is a squid who has been out of touch with the military for quite some time and does not understand Total Force. That also includes me, having been retired 7 years and haveing spent my entire career in intel. But I understand the need to be self sufficient and cross trained in protection. The old days of the SPs patrolling inside the wire while the Army patrolled outside is long gone.

I understand mission requirement for all services today cross a lot of lines and the mission requirements may mean cross training into unfamiliar fields. But, as it has been obviously proven, the old ways are gone. Used to be the AF bases were fairly safe from attacks, except FACs and some quick reaction bases. With the nebulous and amorphous lines of communications, resupply, and forward bases being interchangeable, sounds good to me. Have a good evening!~!

Squid is a derogatory term, especially, coming from someone who didn't wear the Navy uniform and if you read my profile, the Navy is not my only service...
There is such a thing as being penny wise and pound foolish! That is exactly what's being done here. Either build an infantry soldier or build an Airman, anything else is just stupid!
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

Mia culpa, sunliner. If you feel that the term is derogatroy, I apologize. Also forgot your stint in the 40th Inf Div.

And, oh by the way, wasn't your crack about "lil man" derogatory and a personal attack in its own right?

Have a good day!~!

quote:

Originally posted by SUNLINER81:

quote:

Originally posted by SLDO:
Sunliner is a squid who has been out of touch with the military for quite some time and does not understand Total Force. That also includes me, having been retired 7 years and haveing spent my entire career in intel. But I understand the need to be self sufficient and cross trained in protection. The old days of the SPs patrolling inside the wire while the Army patrolled outside is long gone.

I understand mission requirement for all services today cross a lot of lines and the mission requirements may mean cross training into unfamiliar fields. But, as it has been obviously proven, the old ways are gone. Used to be the AF bases were fairly safe from attacks, except FACs and some quick reaction bases. With the nebulous and amorphous lines of communications, resupply, and forward bases being interchangeable, sounds good to me. Have a good evening!~!

Squid is a derogatory term, especially, coming from someone who didn't wear the Navy uniform and if you read my profile, the Navy is not my only service...
There is such a thing as being penny wise and pound foolish! That is exactly what's being done here. Either build an infantry soldier or build an Airman, anything else is just stupid!
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

Of course squid is a derogatory term used routinely by jarheads as a descriptor for their brothers in arms in our sister service ... for that matter, so is jarhead, but some of us have enough confidence not to take it personally ... no label can offend you if you do not give it the power to do so.

Given your assumption that they are taking only the most highly skilled members of the Air Force, hydraulic and jet engine mechanics with up to a year of paid formal training, to perform these tasks, you objection makes sense. But its that automatically true? It seems to me that the Air Force, just like the other services, have a mix of occupational specialties, and that they are probably taking the 2,000+ airmen from fields like logistics and supply to perform these functions ... unless they are completely crazy, which while possible (I have dealt with them before) is unlikely.

quote:

Originally posted by SLDO:

quote:

Originally posted by SUNLINER81:

quote:

Originally posted by SLDO:
Sunliner is a squid who has been out of touch with the military for quite some time and does not understand Total Force. That also includes me, having been retired 7 years and haveing spent my entire career in intel. But I understand the need to be self sufficient and cross trained in protection. The old days of the SPs patrolling inside the wire while the Army patrolled outside is long gone.

I understand mission requirement for all services today cross a lot of lines and the mission requirements may mean cross training into unfamiliar fields. But, as it has been obviously proven, the old ways are gone. Used to be the AF bases were fairly safe from attacks, except FACs and some quick reaction bases. With the nebulous and amorphous lines of communications, resupply, and forward bases being interchangeable, sounds good to me. Have a good evening!~!

Squid is a derogatory term, especially, coming from someone who didn't wear the Navy uniform and if you read my profile, the Navy is not my only service...
There is such a thing as being penny wise and pound foolish! That is exactly what's being done here. Either build an infantry soldier or build an Airman, anything else is just stupid!
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

Mia culpa, sunliner. If you feel that the term is derogatroy, I apologize. Also forgot your stint in the 40th Inf Div.

And, oh by the way, wasn't your crack about "lil man" derogatory and a personal attack in its own right?

Have a good day!~!

Yeah, your right on the lil man thing, I tender my apologies...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

quote:

Originally posted by WesLemmon:
To me, here's an example of the wisdom of our young military leaders being much better THAN we old "monday morning 'quarterback' retirees and veterans of the past."

"We want to be one team, one fight. It doesn't matter which service tape you have on your uniform," said 1st Lt. Matt Addington, the course commander.

This is an example of SERVICE BEFORE SELF; which is the Air Force Motto and the THINKING of Great Air Force members -- of which, I'm very proud to be associated with!

From A Proud Vietnam Veteran

I'll go along with your statement there WES..., good post.



GOD BLESS OUR WARRIORS

Yo SUNNY and SLDO. . .,

Y'all be nice to each other, Christmas is coming up and I don't want good ole Sandy Claus giving you two "hickory sticks" for sniping at each other . . .

BE NICE, not the PC kind though...

quote:

Originally posted by oldmole:

quote:

Originally posted by SUNLINER81:

quote:

Originally posted by SLDO:
Sunliner is a squid who has been out of touch with the military for quite some time and does not understand Total Force. That also includes me, having been retired 7 years and haveing spent my entire career in intel. But I understand the need to be self sufficient and cross trained in protection. The old days of the SPs patrolling inside the wire while the Army patrolled outside is long gone.

I understand mission requirement for all services today cross a lot of lines and the mission requirements may mean cross training into unfamiliar fields. But, as it has been obviously proven, the old ways are gone. Used to be the AF bases were fairly safe from attacks, except FACs and some quick reaction bases. With the nebulous and amorphous lines of communications, resupply, and forward bases being interchangeable, sounds good to me. Have a good evening!~!

Squid is a derogatory term, especially, coming from someone who didn't wear the Navy uniform and if you read my profile, the Navy is not my only service...
There is such a thing as being penny wise and pound foolish! That is exactly what's being done here. Either build an infantry soldier or build an Airman, anything else is just stupid!
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

Of course squid is a derogatory term used routinely by jarheads as a descriptor for their brothers in arms in our sister service ... for that matter, so is jarhead, but some of us have enough confidence not to take it personally ... no label can offend you if you do not give it the power to do so.

Given your assumption that they are taking only the most highly skilled members of the Air Force, hydraulic and jet engine mechanics with up to a year of paid formal training, to perform these tasks, you objection makes sense. But its that automatically true? It seems to me that the Air Force, just like the other services, have a mix of occupational specialties, and that they are probably taking the 2,000+ airmen from fields like logistics and supply to perform these functions ... unless they are completely crazy, which while possible (I have dealt with them before) is unlikely.

The terms "Squid" and "Jarhead", when said by members of the Navy and Marine Corps to one another, one thing, it is like brothers good naturedly fighting, but even then, you can see it go very wrong, when it starts to get serious.
Outsiders, civilians, Army, USAF types and others, can get in serious trouble real quick when they say it...
Now, I'm sure that there are those that maybe of a "less critical" nature, though I hate that term, that the Air Force can more easily let serve with the Army. The point is, that the Air Force has trained all of it's people, out of it's budget and now that money is wasted to the Air Force, it's plain stupidity to do that!
If you want an Infantryman, then build one from the ground up, if you want an Airman, then build one from the ground up, don't sit around building "Pushmepullyous". The Air Force is a highly technical community, not saying the Army isn't, it's that you don't train a man or woman to be a technician on aircraft or one of the many specialized support skills peculiar to Air Force operations, to send him/her to man a truck in a convoy and again, no, I'm not knocking truck drivers or convoys, I used to be a commercial truck driver. The point is, that if the Armed Forces budget is so tight as to require this, then the budget needs to be increased and yes I get the concept that they are operating under. The point is, that it is a stupid way to operate! You want cross training, then do it in your branch or send them to a branch that has that training, then bring them right the heck back. When I was in the Navy, we sent a man from one of the squadrons that I was in, to Army Airborne training at Ft. Benning, why I don't know, but they made a big deal about him completing it, lined up the whole squadron and made a big deal about "pinning" his basic parachutists wings on him in front of everyone.
The point is, a man or woman joins the Air Force to work on aircraft and learn a specific skill, then winds up in the Army? That is just wrong, militarily, tactically AND is a disservice to the man or woman. It is just a stupid waste of fine personnel, of all branches and is also intellectually vapid! It borders on the criminal, militarily, tactically, economically...
If we are reduced to doing this, because we are pressed economically, what happens should we have to answer a global threat, say from a resurgent Russia, under a new dictatorship?
Well, I've gotten way too long on this, so I'll shut up, just hope you see my point...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81

Sunny...,

That Navyman that was sent to Airborne School may possibly be the guy that packs the parachutes for the Aviators, just guessing...

If that is true..., by the Parachute Packer "jumping" himself, it gives that realization of the importance of packing the chute correctly... Just a thought...

That's why the Army has all our Parachute Riggers Airborne Qualified and tasked to jump, at times, by a parachute "they" packed...

Just a thought.

quote:

Originally posted by ELLIOTT1980:
Sunny...,

That Navyman that was sent to Airborne School may possibly be the guy that packs the parachutes for the Aviators, just guessing...

If that is true..., by the Parachute Packer "jumping" himself, it gives that realization of the importance of packing the chute correctly... Just a thought...

That's why the Army has all our Parachute Riggers Airborne Qualified and tasked to jump, at times, by a parachute "they" packed...

Just a thought.

Actually, the Navy has a specific rate to back parachutes and do other things, it's call the PR or Parachute Rigger rating...
Respectfully, SUNLINER81